Running (walking? crawling?) NFL Week 10 thread.

[hondo]

And the Browns just let the most over-rated player in history run -- RUN -- for a 30-yard touchdown.

I'm betting that before Vince Young is through, he will have that distinction.

 

[Bubbler]

Hi,

I've had 3 naps today and about 7 beers during the game and, yes Tommy, I'm a fussy Colts fan. Deal with it.

1) This year's Patriots-Chargers game was at New England, not in San Diego.

2) The Colts played tonight's game minus SEVEN starters, then lost Freeney, Diem, et al during the game.

3) How Dungy doesn't fire a special teams coach is beyond my capabilities. They are horrid. Always have been. Always will be.

4) The 95-yard messup by the official costs them dearly. I hope Bill Simmons writes his column about that this week, then chokes on his own **** and dies a horrible wretched death while most of the SportsJournalists.com fandom watches in cackling delight.

5) Cromartie will never play a game like that again in his life. And Reggie Wayne still had 150 yards receving in this game. And gave up on that one ball like a poor, wussified *****.

6) The Colts defense should sue for non-support.

7) Vinatieri will have at least three "for sale" signs on his lawn by the time he returns to indy.

that is all. see y'all in the a.m.

I'm going to take these point-by-point, because I fear the mountain of excuses Colts fans are going to lean on like a crutch this week.

2. Teams win without starters all of the time. Does it hurt the Colts? Undoubtedly. Should it be fatal? No.
3. Dungy won't do that and you know it, but yes, the Colts special teams are generally God awful.
4. Overcome bad calls, and that's a funny line about Simmons.
7. If Colts fans blame Vinatieri and give Manning a free pass after he threw six interceptions -- a few of them the type of inexusable throws you see out of a gunslinger like Favre, but not out of a computer-with-tennis-shoes like Manning -- Colts fans are flat-out blind and/or dumb.

I'll add another point ... while many here were ready to throw Norv Turner under the bus had San Diego lost, what about Phillip Rivers? He almost single-handedly put the Colts in a position to win with his follies in the end zone after his moronic fumble (just fall on it and eat the two points) and his late interception. Talk about a player who has regressed.

 

[beefncheddar]

Rivers was awful, no question.

At the same time, WTF is Norv doing having the guy throwing the ball from his own end zone, in a pretty heavy rain, when he's got the best player in football standing there waiting for the ball?

Tomlinson finished with 21 carries in a game where the Chargers jumped out to a HUGE lead. Why the hell wasn't he running the damn thing the whole night? It seemed like every time I looked up he was busting off an eight- or nine-yard run and then standing there watching Rivers chuck up two or three bad passes.

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

I'm going to need to go on Kornheiser's opinion of the bestest QB ever. Surely it is someone playing in today's NFL.

 

[Bubbler]

Rivers was awful, no question.

At the same time, WTF is Norv doing having the guy throwing the ball from his own end zone, in a pretty heavy rain, when he's got the best player in football standing there waiting for the ball?

Tomlinson finished with 21 carries in a game where the Chargers jumped out to a HUGE lead. Why the hell wasn't he running the damn thing the whole night? It seemed like every time I looked up he was busting off an eight- or nine-yard run and then standing there watching Rivers chuck up two or three bad passes.

No argument there. I also think I saw Lorenzo Neal carry the ball more times last night than he has in the last 10 years.

 

[flopflipper]

Here's an amazing stat I was this morning: What NFL team has rushed for 100-or-more yards in the most consecutive games (happens to be seven)?

 

[Bubbler]

Here's an amazing stat I was this morning: What NFL team has rushed for 100-or-more yards in the most consecutive games (happens to be seven)?

The Cubs?

 

[flopflipper]

Rivers was awful, no question.

At the same time, WTF is Norv doing having the guy throwing the ball from his own end zone, in a pretty heavy rain, when he's got the best player in football standing there waiting for the ball?

Tomlinson finished with 21 carries in a game where the Chargers jumped out to a HUGE lead. Why the hell wasn't he running the damn thing the whole night? It seemed like every time I looked up he was busting off an eight- or nine-yard run and then standing there watching Rivers chuck up two or three bad passes.

No argument there. I also think I saw Lorenzo Neal carry the ball more times last night than he has in the last 10 years.

That offense was so much fun to watch last year. I mean well constructed, well called, and incredibly explosive. They can't stay out of their own way this year.

 

[flopflipper]

Here's an amazing stat I was this morning: What NFL team has rushed for 100-or-more yards in the most consecutive games (happens to be seven)?

The Cubs?

Well, close. It's actually the Miami Dolphins. Huh?

 

[93Devil]

93Devil, I'd put Roethlisberger on par with Derek Anderson right now.
Your opinion, but I do disagree. Anderson has about 10 starts to his name. How he responds in his next start after his collapse in the second half against the Steelers will say a lot about him. Remember, there was a reason he was waived.

Seriously. Pittsburgh has the benefit of a much better running game, better receivers overall and gets to play against Cleveland's defense twice. Their numbers, despite that, are almost identical.

The Browns have not exactly played the 86 Bears the past few weeks. (STL, OAK, CIN)

I'd also take Palmer, Brees and Hasselbeck over Roethlisberger. And yes, McNabb. Big Evel won a Super Bowl. Whoopdyfreakingdo. So did Trent Dilfer and Mark Rypien, among others.

Tell that to Jim Kelly, Dan Marino or Warren Moon.

This is a team that is well set up to win, regardless of who plays quarterback. It won with Tommy Freaking Maddux, for Christ's sake. It won with Limpwrist Stewart. It went to the Super Bowl with Neil O'Donnell.

It wins a Super Bowl with Knievel.

And as good as he has looked this year, Roethlisberger looked equally bad last year. In the same offense, with the same guys on his team. Somewhere in between is the real answer.

I think this season more refects Ben's natural progression as a QB. Remember, he went under the knife for surgury twice last season. And were are not talking about knee and ankle surgury either.

 

[93Devil]

Again, 93, your arguments might have merit coming from someone without a Steeler jersey accompanying their sig. As it is, they'll always be tainted. (Heh heh. Taint.)

Point taken.

But trust me, if I thought Ben was not the answer at QB like Touchdown Tommy or Kordell or Bubby or Tomzack or Jim Miller or Cliff Stout or Kent Graham or Mark Malone or..., I would be howling for his one way ticket out of town.

I'm comfortable with Ben.

But if the Pats were up for a trade...

 

[outofplace]

93Devil, I'd put Roethlisberger on par with Derek Anderson right now. Seriously. Pittsburgh has the benefit of a much better running game, better receivers overall and gets to play against Cleveland's defense twice. Their numbers, despite that, are almost identical.

I'd also take Palmer, Brees and Hasselbeck over Roethlisberger. And yes, McNabb. Big Evel won a Super Bowl. Whoopdyfreakingdo. So did Trent Dilfer and Mark Rypien, among others. The Steelers won that year, as you know, in spite of him. In the biggest game, he **** his pants. This is a team that is well set up to win, regardless of who plays quarterback. It won with Tommy Freaking Maddux, for Christ's sake. It won with Limpwrist Stewart. It went to the Super Bowl with Neil O'Donnell. It wins with Knievel. Doesn't make him good, though.

And as good as he has looked this year, Roethlisberger looked equally bad last year. In the same offense, with the same guys on his team. Somewhere in between is the real answer.

And yes, his last two games were very nice, against two teams that don't play defense of any kind. Eric Hipple had a stretch like that once, too. He's not in the Hall of Fame, last I checked.

Steeler fanboism never ceases to amaze.

Once again you are proving that you are the one who can't see past his own biases, Junkie, except in your case it is your hatred of the Steelers rather than loyalty to your own team.

Let's start with the comparison with Derek Anderson. Anderson has already failed to hold on to a starting job in the NFL before. He's had a nice run this year and I think he'll continue to be a good player, but he actually has some tremendous weapons around him. Braylon Edwards has been huge for him and turned what should have been an incompletion into a touchdown yesterday with a spectacular catch. Kellen Winslow, Jr. is better than Heath Miller as a receiver and Joe Jurevicious is still solid.

And both quarterbacks are working behind offensive lines that are decent but not great. Even the Browns, whose pass rush is awful, were getting pressure on Roethlisberger yesterday. He has already been sacked a lot and he bails his line out quite a bit with his mobility. He made the key throws yesterday. Anderson missed open receivers all through the second half.

Roethlisberger's numbers are better and he has a track record of success before this season, which Anderson does not. Roethlisberger has a higher completion percentage (66.1 to 56.2), more touchdowns (22-20), fewer interceptions (7-9) and a higher average yardage per pass (8.3-7.6). It's not as close as you try to make it out to be.

Palmer is a judgement call. He was easily better than Roethlisberger before this year, but now that the offensive line in front of him isn't so dominant, he's struggling. Give both guys protection and Palmer is better. Ask them both to overcome pressure to make plays and Roethlisberger is better.

Look at the last two weeks. Roethlisberger torched the battered Ravens' secondary for five touchdown passes in a half. Six days later, Palmer got to face the Ravens after they had lost yet another corner, Ivy, leaving them with their No. 4 and 5 guys starting. Palmer had zero touchdown passes in the game and the Bengals hang on to win on the leg of Shayne Graham (seven field goals) and the ineptitude of Baltimore's offense.

Palmer did torch the Browns for six touchdowns in a game earlier this season, but his team lost in part because he threw an interception with the game on the line. Roethlisberger had his struggles early yesterday, but he brought the Steelers back twice with the game on the line. Again, Roethlisberger's statistics this year are superior in every meaningful category except total yards. You want to discredit Roethlisberger for his numbers against the Browns? The Bengals have only played the Browns once this season and Palmer has more touchdown passes against Cleveland (six) than Roethlisberger does in two contests (five). Palmer has only 10 touchdown passes in the Bengals other eight games, including two against the Ravens.

Brees is on fire of late, but he has 14 touchdown passes and 12 interceptions this year. I'd lump them in the same group just based on last year. But right now, Roethlisberger is playing better. The same goes for Hasselbeck and McNabb.
Look here for a comparison.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&season=2007&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

As far as the Steelers' Super Bowl team, did you even watch any of the AFC playoffs that year? That team doesn't get a sniff of the Super Bowl if Roethlisberger turns in a Trent Dilfer-ish performance. He was terrible in the Super Bowl, but he was the best offensive player on the team during the three playoff games to get them there.

And as far as last year, that offense was not as good as this one because Santonio Holmes really didn't do much of anything until the second half of the season. So your statement that it was "the same group as last year" is inaccurate as well. Early on, when Roethlisberger and the Steelers were struggling, Holmes was a non-factor. Not to mention the fact that Roethlisberger wasn't right physically all year. Any quarterback's performance would suffer after the injuries he suffered in that motorcycle accident, not to mention the emergency appendectomy that August.

It was even worse for a quarterback who relies on his physical strength so much. Watch him for a game and see how many plays he makes after a defender gets a hand on him, after breaking a tackle. He lost a lot of weight and muscle while recovering from the accident, so his abilty to shed defenders was gone and his arm strength was not the same. He's not even close to what he showed in 2006.

I'm not saying he is a Hall of Fame quarterback. I'm saying after Manning, Brady and Farve, there is a group at the next level and he belongs with Tony Romo at the head of it.

 

[outofplace]

Again, 93, your arguments might have merit coming from someone without a Steeler jersey accompanying their sig. As it is, they'll always be tainted. (Heh heh. Taint.)

Point taken.

But trust me, if I thought Ben was not the answer at QB like Touchdown Tommy or Kordell or Bubby or Tomzack or Jim Miller or Cliff Stout or Kent Graham or Mark Malone or..., I would be howling for his one way ticket out of town.

I'm comfortable with Ben.

But if the Pats were up for a trade...

Not to mention, Junkie, that you have proven yourself every bit as biased on this subject as 93Devil or myself, if not moreso.

Roethlisberger is better than all of those guys that preceeded him. I'm not sure where he will end up for his career, but I would take him right now over any quarterback the Steelers have had since Terry Bradshaw. Even O'Donnell in '95 fell on his ass in the playoffs. He was consistently terrible when it mattered. He was great in the regular season, but really didn't do much in the AFC playoffs.

I'd take that trade for Brady, too, though. :)

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

93Devil, I'd put Roethlisberger on par with Derek Anderson right now. Seriously. Pittsburgh has the benefit of a much better running game, better receivers overall and gets to play against Cleveland's defense twice. Their numbers, despite that, are almost identical.

That is a ridiculous anti-fanboy comment.

Got to be kidding me.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

Hi,

I've had 3 naps today and about 7 beers during the game and, yes Tommy, I'm a fussy Colts fan. Deal with it.

1) This year's Patriots-Chargers game was at New England, not in San Diego.

2) The Colts played tonight's game minus SEVEN starters, then lost Freeney, Diem, et al during the game.

3) How Dungy doesn't fire a special teams coach is beyond my capabilities. They are horrid. Always have been. Always will be.

4) The 95-yard messup by the official costs them dearly. I hope Bill Simmons writes his column about that this week, then chokes on his own **** and dies a horrible wretched death while most of the SportsJournalists.com fandom watches in cackling delight.

5) Cromartie will never play a game like that again in his life. And Reggie Wayne still had 150 yards receving in this game. And gave up on that one ball like a poor, wussified *****.

6) The Colts defense should sue for non-support.

7) Vinatieri will have at least three "for sale" signs on his lawn by the time he returns to indy.

that is all. see y'all in the a.m.

I'm going to take these point-by-point, because I fear the mountain of excuses Colts fans are going to lean on like a crutch this week.

2. Teams win without starters all of the time. Does it hurt the Colts? Undoubtedly. Should it be fatal? No.

They don't win with that much missing firepower. Does not happen.

 

[outofplace]

I'm surprised you bois are even willing to admit that Brady is better.

Oh, and Ivy got hurt late in the game yesterday. I was watching. Based on that, I'll assume the rest of your long-winded argument is also false.

Oh please. The few times you actually try to back up your biased statements you constantly get the facts wrong.

This is from the Ravens' website:

"Cornerback Corey Ivy left the game in the first quarter with a concussion when he took down 345-pound Bobbie Williams with a low, open-field tackle. Williams, who was running with a Carson Palmer fumble, kneed Ivy squarely in the helmet when the 185-pound defensive back bent for the hit.

Ivy remained on the field for a few minutes, and then had to be helped off by the Ravens’ medical team. Still, the tough seven-year veteran seemed fine on the sideline heading into the second quarter, but league rules mandated that he must sit out once a concussion is diagnosed."

So, the first quarter is late in the game now?

Junkie is wrong again. As usual. I can understand your desire to dismiss the rest of my post. Once again, the facts refute your arguments.

Now go on and make some comment about jizz guzzling, because that's really all you have. Fraud.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

I'm surprised you bois are even willing to admit that Brady is better.

Oh, and Ivy got hurt late in the game yesterday. I was watching. Based on that, I'll assume the rest of your long-winded argument is also false.

Oh please. The few times you actually try to back up your biased statements you constantly get the facts wrong.

This is from the Ravens' website:

"Cornerback Corey Ivy left the game in the first quarter with a concussion when he took down 345-pound Bobbie Williams with a low, open-field tackle. Williams, who was running with a Carson Palmer fumble, kneed Ivy squarely in the helmet when the 185-pound defensive back bent for the hit.

Ivy remained on the field for a few minutes, and then had to be helped off by the Ravens’ medical team. Still, the tough seven-year veteran seemed fine on the sideline heading into the second quarter, but league rules mandated that he must sit out once a concussion is diagnosed."

So, the first quarter is late in the game now?

Junkie is wrong again. As usual. I can understand your desire to dismiss the rest of my post. Once again, the facts refute your arguments.

Now go on and make some comment about jizz guzzling, because that's really all you have. Fraud.

I didn't know that Junkie was one of those sort of posters until now.

 

[Write-brained]

Looks like Adrian Peterson might be out for the season.

 

[outofplace]

I'm surprised you bois are even willing to admit that Brady is better.

Oh, and Ivy got hurt late in the game yesterday. I was watching. Based on that, I'll assume the rest of your long-winded argument is also false.

Oh please. The few times you actually try to back up your biased statements you constantly get the facts wrong.

This is from the Ravens' website:

"Cornerback Corey Ivy left the game in the first quarter with a concussion when he took down 345-pound Bobbie Williams with a low, open-field tackle. Williams, who was running with a Carson Palmer fumble, kneed Ivy squarely in the helmet when the 185-pound defensive back bent for the hit.

Ivy remained on the field for a few minutes, and then had to be helped off by the Ravens’ medical team. Still, the tough seven-year veteran seemed fine on the sideline heading into the second quarter, but league rules mandated that he must sit out once a concussion is diagnosed."

So, the first quarter is late in the game now?

Junkie is wrong again. As usual. I can understand your desire to dismiss the rest of my post. Once again, the facts refute your arguments.

Now go on and make some comment about jizz guzzling, because that's really all you have. Fraud.

I didn't know that Junkie was one of those sort of posters until now.

Who can tell? He goes back and deletes most of his posts. But on this very thread he said he hates Steelers fans, and called Roethlisberger the most over-rated player ever and a crappy quarterback, among other things.

 

[Rosie]

Looks like Adrian Peterson might be out for the season.

This has been a waste of a season. :( [/bitter looser Vikings fangirl]