NBA draft 2012

[93Devil]

Devil's opinion has always basically been this - he doesn't care about the players, only his entertainment.

The "always" part of your statement is very incorrect. Instead that's a modification of his position that he turned to only after his original position was overwhelmingly proven wrong. FIRST, he spent a couple years years here adamantly arguing that players with college careers had better pro careers, and were the only ones who could lead their teams to championships. It was only after that position was thoroughly slaughtered that he morphed it into the "I don't give a **** about the kids" position.

That's true, but that underlying reasoning that I laid out seemed evident to me even when he was making those arguments. I agree, though, that those arguments are ridiculous.

But you have no concept of the NBA and college basketball in the 1980s.

 

[dreunc1542]

Um, what? I wasn't aware that all of the tape from those days doesn't exist. I'm quite aware of what basketball was like, on both levels, in the 1980s. I just don't agree with trying to hold people back from earning a paycheck because I want to be selfish.

I love it. You'll talk down to Republicans on political threads for trying to protect their self-interests, but then you come on basketball threads and spout this bs.

 

[JC]

Devil's opinion has always basically been this - he doesn't care about the players, only his entertainment.

The "always" part of your statement is very incorrect. Instead that's a modification of his position that he turned to only after his original position was overwhelmingly proven wrong. FIRST, he spent a couple years years here adamantly arguing that players with college careers had better pro careers, and were the only ones who could lead their teams to championships. It was only after that position was thoroughly slaughtered that he morphed it into the "I don't give a **** about the kids" position.

That's true, but that underlying reasoning that I laid out seemed evident to me even when he was making those arguments. I agree, though, that those arguments are ridiculous.

But you have no concept of the NBA and college basketball in the 1980s.

What's funny is you seem to be stuck in the 80's.

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

Weird that the whole "should they stay in college?" thing came up on this thread. 93Devil is a machine.

Why does Larry Bird keep trying to draft himself?

 

[93Devil]

Um, what? I wasn't aware that all of the tape from those days doesn't exist. I'm quite aware of what basketball was like, on both levels, in the 1980s. I just don't agree with trying to hold people back from earning a paycheck because I want to be selfish.

I love it. You'll talk down to Republicans on political threads for trying to protect their self-interests, but then you come on basketball threads and spout this bs.

I'm the customer of the NBA, and just like a customer of any service industry, if the workers are doing a ****ty job, I am not going say it is their right to collect a paycheck if someone better is out there.

And clips cannot tell the complete story of how cool it was when every freaking night you would have a Pearl Washington/Patrick Ewing game on TV or a Ralph Sampson/Mike Jordan game on ESPN, and when Magic and Bird would play in the Finals it was a much bigger deal, for all the right reasons, than what we see today.

I cannot imagine how cool being around when DiMaggio as going for 56 hits, no matter how many videos I watch. It was the same for hoops. The 1980s was the golden era.

 

[93Devil]

Weird that the whole "should they stay in college?" thing came up on this thread. 93Devil is a machine.

Why does Larry Bird keep trying to draft himself?

Was I the person that first brought it up?

 

[JC]

Weird that the whole "should they stay in college?" thing came up on this thread. 93Devil is a machine.

Why does Larry Bird keep trying to draft himself?

In his defense, he didn't bring it up this time.

 

[Stoney]

Guilty

 

[JC]

Um, what? I wasn't aware that all of the tape from those days doesn't exist. I'm quite aware of what basketball was like, on both levels, in the 1980s. I just don't agree with trying to hold people back from earning a paycheck because I want to be selfish.

I love it. You'll talk down to Republicans on political threads for trying to protect their self-interests, but then you come on basketball threads and spout this bs.

I'm the customer of the NBA, and just like a customer of any service industry, if the workers are doing a ****ty job, I am not going say it is their right to collect a paycheck if someone better is out there.

And clips cannot tell the complete story of how cool it was when every freaking night you would have a Pearl Washington/Patrick Ewing game on TV or a Ralph Sampson/Mike Jordan game on ESPN, and when Magic and Bird would play in the Finals it was a much bigger deal, for all the right reasons, than what we see today.

I cannot imagine how cool being around when DiMaggio as going for 56 hits, no matter how many videos I watch. It was the same for hoops. The 1980s was the golden era.

Oh nostalgia. I would like to know how you were watching these games on TV every freaking night in the 80's.

 

[93Devil]

Changing topics, is this Beal kid any good?

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

Guilty

Well, it is a better topic than the Pacers' draft.

 

[Stoney]

Nonsense. Miles Pumlee is a beast.

 

[93Devil]

Nonsense. Miles Pumlee is a beast.

He went to Duke! He's gotta be good!

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

93Devil,

If you really want to see only the best players, you don't necessarily want them to stay in school.

You want the league to contract about six teams.

 

[BTExpress]

Well hopefully a college coach would have told James that he was the one who should have been making the plays at the ends of games and not playing hot potato with the basketball.

How do you explain James scoring his team's final 25 points in a playoff OT victory against the Pistons? Would seem to be 180 degrees from playing hot potato with the ball.

Last year? Pretty simple, really. There was still some confusion about roles. James was the better player but was the newcomer. Wade was the established player, the team's go-to player at crunch time for 7 years, but was showing some age.

This year Wade went to him and said, point-blank, "We need you to carry this team."

He probably should have said it last year. Somebody should have said it last year. But they didn't, and the end of games tended to be quite untidy as a result.

But it had NOTHING to do with what James should or should not have been told by a coach in high school or college.

 

[dreunc1542]

93Devil,

If you really want to see only the best players, you don't necessarily want them to stay in school.

You want the league to contract about six teams.

This.

 

[Thomas Goldkamp]

Changing topics, is this Beal kid any good?

I covered him last year at Florida, and he's very good. Probably one of the safest picks in the draft. Started off the season slowly because he seemed to be deferring to his teammates, but he came on strongly at the end of the year. He didn't shoot anywhere near his high school percentages in college, but he was shooting around 46 percent from three in the postseason, which is what everyone expected when he signed with Florida.

More importantly, he's got pretty good size for an NBA two, and he plays bigger than that size. He was Florida's leading rebounder from the small forward spot. He's a good defender, has great hands and is more explosive than he looks.

If you ask me, he'll be an All-Star at some point in his career. He has the potential to make it there multiple times, too.

 

[Mark2010]

I agree with 93Devil on the whole early-entry thing. It has definitely hurt college basketball in the sense that you have very few returning stars to market a program or the sport around. It's getting to be like minor league baseball, where there is wholesale roster turnover every year.

I enjoyed basketball much more in the 1980s when you could watch a Patrick Ewing or Akeem Olajuwon or Michael Jordan for several years, then follow their progress from college to the pro ranks. And they were much more NBA-ready when they arrived.

As for players like Sullinger who's draft stock may have slipped, well why not come back for another year in college and try to improve that status? It's like selling stock when its value has dropped. If you believe it can bounce back, wait a little while. The draft is always going to be there next year.

 

[JC]

I agree with 93Devil on the whole early-entry thing. It has definitely hurt college basketball in the sense that you have very few returning stars to market a program or the sport around. It's getting to be like minor league baseball, where there is wholesale roster turnover every year.

I enjoyed basketball much more in the 1980s when you could watch a Patrick Ewing or Akeem Olajuwon or Michael Jordan for several years, then follow their progress from college to the pro ranks. And they were much more NBA-ready when they arrived.

As for players like Sullinger who's draft stock may have slipped, well why not come back for another year in college and try to improve that status? It's like selling stock when its value has dropped. If you believe it can bounce back, wait a little while. The draft is always going to be there next year.

How many juniors were drafted in the top ten this year?

 

[Stoney]

As for players like Sullinger who's draft stock may have slipped, well why not come back for another year in college and try to improve that status? It's like selling stock when its value has dropped. If you believe it can bounce back, wait a little while. The draft is always going to be there next year.

Umm, because it doesn't actually work that way. The whole notion of "staying in school to improve your draft stock" has been proven to be a complete farce in recent years--with the kids who try it seeing their stock drop with the extra year more often than rise.

Contrary to myth, pro scouts aren't looking for older more experienced players who've been through the wars. Instead, they're enamored by the younger bouncy bodies who've never yet been injured nor had their weaknesses exposed yet. Simply being a year older detracts from a player's draft stock, because scouts interpret an older player as having less "upside" potential for improvement. And if you stay until a year older without sufficiently improving, that can have a disastrous effect on a kid's stock. And if you stay until a year older and also get injured? Well, **** ...you just screwed yourself, kid.

Telling Sullinger to stay a third year is the dumbest advice you could give him.