MLB Trade Deadline Thread

[LiveStrong]

They had to threaten him to get him to play on Saturday after sitting out Wed/Fri with a bull**** injury.

 

[Angola!]

This is clear: Boston was sick and goddamned tired of Manny bein' Manny.

Didn't the Red Sox dump Nomar Garciaparra in a three-team deal right at the deadline before they made their World Series run in 2004? And didn't they do all right with Orlando Cabrera and Dougie Consonants, who they picked up in that trade?

At the time, everyone said Theo got ripped off on that one too.

I think it's a fine deal for the Sox. Hansen wasn't going to amount to anything in Boston and Moss was never going to have a spot in that outfield. $7 million means jack **** to the franchise to have to kick in.

This just shows how sick of Manny everyone was. It was clear that the team was done with him, especially during last night's horrid game.

The difference between this and the Nomar trade is this: Orlando Cabrera had to replace Nomar, but still had Ortiz and Manny hitting in the lineup. Four years later, Bay has to replace Manny and play with a hurt Ortiz, a no-hitting shortstop, a blackhole at catcher and a subpar offensive center fielder.

This isn't the same at all.

Also, Manny owned the Yankees. Absolutely owned them. I am ecstatic about this trade.

Not comparing the two trades as being the same, I was saying that at the time everyone thought it was a bad deal for the Red Sox and it turned out OK.

I don't see how the Sox got ****ed on this. And it won't matter if they get no offense out of C-SS-CF for the rest of the year along with their bullpen issues. No trade was going to fix that.

Well, obviously we'll have to wait and see, I just don't think Jason Bay can replace Manny's production. It's not just numbers, Manny killed in the big moments and he also owned the Yankees. It's asking a lot of a 29-year-old from Pittsburgh to replace that.

I agree with you, but what does him being a 29-year-old from Pittsburgh have to do with anything?

Meaning each season he's played in the majors, the Pirates have been eliminated from playoff contention by April 15.

Because of him? I'm pretty sure if Manny was on the Pirates instead of Bay the Pirates would still suck.

No, that's not what I was saying.

What I was saying is Bay has never even dreamt of being in a playoff race, yet suddenly he is going to hit like Manny Ramirez in this playoff race?

 

[a_rosenthal]

Forgot they use completely different baseballs in the playoffs. I bet Bay is wishing he would have taken more BP against those playoff baseballs.

 

[outofplace]

So why not offer something to Pittsburgh to get Jack Wilson included. Dodgers now have Andruw Jones and Manny Ramirez in the outfield, I'm placing money on Joe Torre losing his mind.

I heard they wanted Kemp for Jack Wilson, which about the most absurd demand I've ever heard.

Sure, we'll give you a potential 25-40 guy for a shortstop you bat behind your pitcher.

If it had been just Kemp and none of the other prospects? Look at it from the Pirates' perspective. You think asking for Kemp in exchange for Bay and Wilson is that ridiculous?

I am amazed that anybody thinks the Dodgers have reason to be unhappy. Sure, they still have the problem at shortstop. But they got a great hitter and the cash to pay him the rest of the season in exchange for Andy LaRoche and Bryan Morris. You're going to complain about that?

 

[Overrated]

No, I heard two weeks ago the Pirates wanted Matt Kemp for Jack Wilson. Straight up.

 

[outofplace]

No, I heard two weeks ago the Pirates wanted Matt Kemp for Jack Wilson. Straight up.

Oh, that. I thought it was Wilson and Nady for Kemp, not just Wilson. Not that I'd do that, either, but it's not quite as awful.

 

[Angola!]

Forgot they use completely different baseballs in the playoffs. I bet Bay is wishing he would have taken more BP against those playoff baseballs.

Whatever dude.

You are right. Hitting cleanup for the Pirates in a meaningless game against the Nationals on Sept. 29 is the exact same as hitting cleanup with a playoff spot on the line against the Yankees at Fenway.

I like you, but seriously, your sabermetrics **** is annoying after a bit.

 

[Batman]

So, for Pirates fans, does trading Nady and Bay mean saying, "Wait 'till 2015!"?

 

[typewriterhill]

Pittsburgh is looking at 2010-2011. I like what they've done with the quantity and some of the talent coming to the organization but just as important is the team signing 5 of their top 10 draft picks from this year, especially #2 overall Pedro Alvarez.

 

[Batman]

I just don't get how other low-budget teams can have an occasional good year and the Pirates can't. The Rays, Marlins, A's and Brewers have all done it. The Royals were around .500 a couple seasons ago. Even the Tigers went to the World Series with mostly low-priced homegrown talent, before they started signing high-priced free agents.
Shouldn't one of these rebuilding cycles eventually result in a winning season, at the very least?

 

[PopeDirkBenedict]

Boston traded a money-hungry, lazy, and unhappy outfielder to get rid of the cancer before it ruined the clubhouse. The Red Sox are not trying to pass off this deal as if Jason Bay is going to replace Manny Ramirez. Bay is going to play better defense in left field, he's going to work hard, and he's going to produce .280/30/100.

Manny has been Manny forever. He has always been kinda lazy, always been a mental space cadet and always been a distraction. Yet the Sawx managed to win two World Series with him. Yes, the recent transgressions were stupider than others, but if Theo/John Henry/Tito had announced that there was no way Manny was being dealt and sat down with him, my guess is that it would have blown over.

The man is a future Hall of Famer who is scary because he is such a good hitter on nothing but pure instinct. He is capable of changing a game with one swing and can go on hot streaks where you can't pitch to him. None of those attributes apply to Jason Bay.

 

[Angola!]

I like you, but seriously, your sabermetrics **** is annoying after a bit.

Ahem.

;D

Yeah, sorry. I still stand by that post.

 

[RossLT]

Is the general consensus with Matt Kemp that he is going to be a stud? I haven't seen any Dodgers games, my knowledge of him is limited to what I see in the daily box scores.

 

[a_rosenthal]

Forgot they use completely different baseballs in the playoffs. I bet Bay is wishing he would have taken more BP against those playoff baseballs.

Whatever dude.

You are right. Hitting cleanup for the Pirates in a meaningless game against the Nationals on Sept. 29 is the exact same as hitting cleanup with a playoff spot on the line against the Yankees at Fenway.

I like you, but seriously, your sabermetrics **** is annoying after a bit.

Jason Bay has proven that he's a .280 hitter, who will have an OBP of around .375 and a slugging percentage of around .500. He's done that consistently (save for last year's injury-riddled season) and has even topped those numbers in the past. I think we can all agree that a .275/.370/.500 line isn't *completely* crazy, right?

So what's going to change? I mean, sure, he might go 0-5 in a game against Joba (because Joba's a ****ing stud). He also might go 2-3 with 2 walks against Joba (because Joba isn't perfect). Neither of those results will change the fact that he's a .275/.370/.500 guy.

The pressure increases, certainly, but the concept is the same: Get on base by hitting the ball as hard/far as you can or drawing a walk. Jason Bay has shown, in a fairly large sample size, that he's capable of doing that at a successful clip.

I'm not even bringing sabermetrics into the discussion, Gola.

 

[Angola!]

Forgot they use completely different baseballs in the playoffs. I bet Bay is wishing he would have taken more BP against those playoff baseballs.

Whatever dude.

You are right. Hitting cleanup for the Pirates in a meaningless game against the Nationals on Sept. 29 is the exact same as hitting cleanup with a playoff spot on the line against the Yankees at Fenway.

I like you, but seriously, your sabermetrics **** is annoying after a bit.

Jason Bay has proven that he's a .280 hitter, who will have an OBP of around .375 and a slugging percentage of around .500. He's done that consistently (save for last year's injury-riddled season) and has even topped those numbers in the past. I think we can all agree that a .275/.370/.500 line isn't *completely* crazy, right?

So what's going to change? I mean, sure, he might go 0-5 in a game against Joba (because Joba's a ****ing stud). He also might go 2-3 with 2 walks against Joba (because Joba isn't perfect). Neither of those results will change the fact that he's a .275/.370/.500 guy.

The pressure increases, certainly, but the concept is the same: Get on base by hitting the ball as hard/far as you can or drawing a walk. Jason Bay has shown, in a fairly large sample size, that he's capable of doing that at a successful clip.

I'm not even bringing sabermetrics into the discussion, Gola.

Sorry, I took the shot where I could.

The fact is, yes Jason Bay is a pretty good hitter, a little above average some might say , but you still can never account how someone will handle the pressure that is a pennant race.

We've all seen plenty of players who were fan-****ing-tastic in places like Pittsburgh or Tampa or Kansas City or wherever enter a pennant race with the whole baseball world watching and suck complete ass.

So, I still stand by this: Expecting that Jason Bay - because he has similar numbers to Manny this season - will hit like Manny when it comes time that playoff spots and playoff games are on the line is asking a lot.

I'm not saying he can't do it. Maybe he'll turn into Aaron ****ing Boone. I don't know. I'm just saying people, Red Sox fans especially, should temper their expectations because it is a lot to ask.


Oh, and if he goes 0-for-5 against Joba Chamberlain in a game that decides a playoff spot? Well, you can guarantee Red Sox fans will rip him a new asshole. Guarantee.

Everyone loves the Nomar trade because it ended with a World Series.

If the Manny trade ends this season with Jason Bay hitting .212 and the Red Sox missing the playoffs, well Mr. Bay won't be treated quite the same way Orlando Cabrera was/is.

 

[buckweaver]

The man is a future Hall of Famer who is scary because he is such a good hitter on nothing but pure instinct.

I'm nitpicking, but this is a common misconception. Truth is, Manny is a very, very intelligent hitter (not ballplayer), who works very hard at that aspect of the game. He can be pretty dumb in the outfield, on the bases, in the dugout and off the field ... but in the batter's box, he's adaptable, creative, observant ... and talented enough to beat you even when he gets fooled, which he rarely does. In short, one of the smartest hitters in the game. Pujols is another.

but if Theo/John Henry/Tito had announced that there was no way Manny was being dealt and sat down with him, my guess is that it would have blown over.

I agree. This is where Francona comes in.

Pete Bell: "He's not happy."
Happy: "Who the hell cares? His mom's got a job, a car and a house with a yard. It's your job to make him happy ... Coach!"

(Yeah. I went there. Suck it, haters. ;D)

 

[a_rosenthal]

I would like to see just 3 names of players who suddenly were traded from small markets to big markets and completely failed (without injuries and if given a reasonable sample size). It's possible that there are plenty, but I suspect that's just a myth. Maybe BW can pull a Rain Man and spout out some eQa's, OPS of former Royals, Pirates and Marlins players failing in big games.

I'm not saying it's a good trade for the Sox. But I don't buy the logic that he'll fail because he's in Boston. Unless there's something in the water or he lacks a certain gene a human being needs to take a walk in New England.

 

[Angola!]

I would like to see just 3 names of players who suddenly were traded from small markets to big markets and completely failed (without injuries and if given a reasonable sample size). It's possible that there are plenty, but I suspect that's just a myth. Maybe BW can pull a Rain Man and spout out some eQa's, OPS of former Royals, Pirates and Marlins players failing in big games.

I'm not saying it's a good trade for the Sox. But I don't buy the logic that he'll fail because he's in Boston. Unless there's something in the water or he lacks a certain gene a human being needs to take a walk in New England.

See that's where you are misreading me, I'm not saying he will fail automatically because he's going to Boston either. I'm just saying he won't be Manny Ramirez and everyone needs to chill out about that fact.

 

[LiveStrong]

He definitely won't be motivated-and-31-years-old Manny.

 

[a_rosenthal]

I would like to see just 3 names of players who suddenly were traded from small markets to big markets and completely failed (without injuries and if given a reasonable sample size). It's possible that there are plenty, but I suspect that's just a myth. Maybe BW can pull a Rain Man and spout out some eQa's, OPS of former Royals, Pirates and Marlins players failing in big games.

I'm not saying it's a good trade for the Sox. But I don't buy the logic that he'll fail because he's in Boston. Unless there's something in the water or he lacks a certain gene a human being needs to take a walk in New England.

See that's where you are misreading me, I'm not saying he will fail automatically because he's going to Boston either. I'm just saying he won't be Manny Ramirez and everyone needs to chill out about that fact.

Then we absolutely agree. Put that one on the board, folks. It's a rarity.

(Though I'm guessing we also agree on Joba. He won't compile enough innings to be in contention for the Cy, but Christ... he's the best pitcher I've seen this year. It's not crazy to suggest that he should win the ROY, particularly if he can continue to harness that curveball.)