2025 MLB running thread

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

This is a wild thing to get riled up about! (Ironic coming from me) I think Raleigh should have won. I feel bad for him that he didn't win, b/c this will almost surely be his best year and if he can't win the MVP hitting 60 homers and catching for a division champ, when will he? At some point, this might be his Alan Trammell moment that keeps him out of the Hall of Fame an extra 20 or so years. But Judge is Judge. He might be a unanimous HOFer. It sorta sucks the suspense out of the proceedings that two players have a monopoly on the MVP, but we also get to say we live in a time of (unrelenting bleakness) historic baseball superstars doing things none of us have ever seen.

 

[Songbird]

if he can't win the MVP hitting 60 homers and catching for a division champ, when will he?

Right. But Joe Poz said Judge is like, Judge, and I must vote for Judge!

 

[Chet Lemon]

Yes you do, especially You.

I don’t. There’s no “control” baseline to measure a catcher’s most important role against. I don’t know what Bryan Woo’s ERA would be pitching to another catcher.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

Right. But Joe Poz said Judge is like, Judge, and I must vote for Judge!

I do fully agree that he'd be writing 500,000,000 words on how Raleigh was the unquestioned winner if Raleigh was on the Royals.

 

[justgladtobehere]

In calculating WAR, the positional adjustment for catchers is +12.5 runs, for corner outfielders it is -7.5 runs, and for DH it is -17.5 runs (over a full season). Over a full season, about 10 runs equal a win.

According to Baseball Reference, Judge was about 60 runs better batting than Raleigh.

 

[Songbird]

I don’t. There’s no “control” baseline to measure a catcher’s most important role against. I don’t know what Bryan Woo’s ERA would be pitching to another catcher.

Yeah, well, Cal caught Woo's 6.1-inning, 4-hit, 0-run win against the Yanks in May. And went 1 for 4 with a ribbie.

Next day he caught Castillo's 6-inning, 1-run loss and went 2 for 4.

LOL whatever.

We both know what Cal Raleigh catching on the Mariners vs. Aaron Judge right-fielding on the Yanks means ... in the grand ol' scheme of the game of baseball.

As @BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo said much more eloquently ... if Cal can't win it with this type of season ... historic, for the ages ... when TF will he ever win it when we can just give it to the great DiMaggio Judge on merits that are no better or stronger than because?

It's been fun. Onto 2026 and a Dodgers 3-peat.

 

[Chet Lemon]

“Merits no better or stronger than because?”

He led the league in all three major rate batting categories and hit 50-plus home runs in the process.

There is a case to be made for Raleigh, but there is also one for Judge - a strong one. And I cannot imagine most voters really give a fig about whether one or the other plays for the Yankees.

 

[Songbird]

“Merits no better or stronger than because?”

He led the league in all three major rate batting categories and hit 50-plus home runs in the process.

There is a case to be made for Raleigh, but there is also one for Judge - a strong one. And I cannot imagine most voters really give a fig about whether one or the other plays for the Yankees.

Yes, they do. If Judge was a Mariner and Raleigh a Yankee ... same stats ... it would have been unanimous, or near it, for Cal.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

Yeah, well, Cal caught Woo's 6.1-inning, 4-hit, 0-run win against the Yanks in May. And went 1 for 4 with a ribbie.

Next day he caught Castillo's 6-inning, 1-run loss and went 2 for 4.

LOL whatever.

We both know what Cal Raleigh catching on the Mariners vs. Aaron Judge right-fielding on the Yanks means ... in the grand ol' scheme of the game of baseball.

As @BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo said much more eloquently ... if Cal can't win it with this type of season ... historic, for the ages ... when TF will he ever win it when we can just give it to the great DiMaggio Judge on merits that are no better or stronger than because?

It's been fun. Onto 2026 and a Dodgers 3-peat.

Even as a faux Raleigh voter, I would argue that Judge winning it despite potential MVP fatigue is evidence he was truly deserving. Voters might be tired of Judge and I can all but guarantee you they are REALLY tired of dealing with the Yankees, who continue to carry themselves in haughty, don't-you-know-who-we-are fashion even though they haven't done **** in 16 years. If Judge overcame those obstacles and still won, that's a pretty good argument for his case,

 

[Della9250]

At some point, this might be his Alan Trammell moment that keeps him out of the Hall of Fame an extra 20 or so years.

No offense to Raleigh, but he has like a one percent chance at the Hall of Fame. He's about to turn 29 and needs to play five more seasons just to be eligible for the ballot. He hit 40 percent of his career home runs this season.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

No offense to Raleigh, but he has like a one percent chance at the Hall of Fame. He's about to turn 29 and needs to play five more seasons just to be eligible for the ballot. He hit 40 percent of his career home runs this season.

He's got a long way to go, but he's off to a pretty good start. He's already fifth amongst active catchers in WAR. If he's as good next year as he was in 2024 (4.7 WAR), he'll be more than halfway to likely HOFers Buster Posey & Yadier Molina before turning 30. Five more 5.0 WAR seasons and he'll have more WAR than Posey or Molina, both of whom will likely have a plaque by that time. (Posey & Molina being likely HOFers is a topic for another time) Salvador Perez is generating some HOF chatter and he's only at 35.5 WAR (and somehow only six years older than Raleigh). There's a ton that can go sideways (work stoppages, injuries, position changes), but Raleigh is at least on the horizon as a potential HOFer.

 

[Della9250]

He's got a long way to go, but he's off to a pretty good start. He's already fifth amongst active catchers in WAR. If he's as good next year as he was in 2024 (4.7 WAR), he'll be more than halfway to likely HOFers Buster Posey & Yadier Molina before turning 30. Five more 5.0 WAR seasons and he'll have more WAR than Posey or Molina, both of whom will likely have a plaque by that time. (Posey & Molina being likely HOFers is a topic for another time) Salvador Perez is generating some HOF chatter and he's only at 35.5 WAR (and somehow only six years older than Raleigh). There's a ton that can go sideways (work stoppages, injuries, position changes), but Raleigh is at least on the horizon as a potential HOFer.

The three that you mentioned have significant playoff success that bolsters their cases and with Molina is the added defensive reputation. I'll also point out there are people who don't see any of those three as lock Hall of Famers.

Raleigh is a guy through 28 who has one All-Star, one Gold Glove and one Silver Slugger.

Five more 5.0 WAR seasons? From a guy who surpassed that once, in his prime, and it just happened and do that like it's easy, especially for a catcher?

He's also got a .226 batting average and a .314 on base. How much better are those going to get?

 

[2muchcoffeeman]

He's got a long way to go, but he's off to a pretty good start. He's already fifth amongst active catchers in WAR. If he's as good next year as he was in 2024 (4.7 WAR), he'll be more than halfway to likely HOFers Buster Posey & Yadier Molina before turning 30. Five more 5.0 WAR seasons and he'll have more WAR than Posey or Molina, both of whom will likely have a plaque by that time. (Posey & Molina being likely HOFers is a topic for another time) Salvador Perez is generating some HOF chatter and he's only at 35.5 WAR (and somehow only six years older than Raleigh). There's a ton that can go sideways (work stoppages, injuries, position changes), but Raleigh is at least on the horizon as a potential HOFer.

"Amongst"? I had no idea you were British.

 

[BYH 2: Electric Boogaloo]

The three that you mentioned have significant playoff success that bolsters their cases and with Molina is the added defensive reputation. I'll also point out there are people who don't see any of those three as lock Hall of Famers.

Raleigh is a guy through 28 who has one All-Star, one Gold Glove and one Silver Slugger.

Five more 5.0 WAR seasons? From a guy who surpassed that once, in his prime, and it just happened and do that like it's easy, especially for a catcher?

He's also got a .226 batting average and a .314 on base. How much better are those going to get?

Hey I didn't say he should start writing his speech, just that he's off to a pretty good start. He's probably not going to have a season like this ever again. But this season also buys him some cushion. He was nearly a 4.0 WAR player from '22-24. It's not unreasonable to think he can settle into being a 5.0 WAR player for the next five years, which would still make him a really, really good player at the most premium position on the diamond. And if he does that, he;s going to force a conversation about what a HOF catcher is nearing the midway point (yikes) of the 21st century. Catchers aren't taking on 140-game workloads anymore. Is more than a half-decade of elite production while playing 115-125 games enough to get a guy HOF consideration?

 

[outofplace]

The three that you mentioned have significant playoff success that bolsters their cases and with Molina is the added defensive reputation. I'll also point out there are people who don't see any of those three as lock Hall of Famers.

Raleigh is a guy through 28 who has one All-Star, one Gold Glove and one Silver Slugger.

Five more 5.0 WAR seasons? From a guy who surpassed that once, in his prime, and it just happened and do that like it's easy, especially for a catcher?

He's also got a .226 batting average and a .314 on base. How much better are those going to get?

Possibly a lot, given that his slash line has gone up significantly every season since he is a rookie. That won't happen again, but if he can even hang around his 2024 number for four or five more years, that would move the line significantly.

 

[Chet Lemon]

There’s a bit of a 2012 vibe to this MVP debate. In 2012, the mantra was, “He won the Triple Crown!” This year is is, “He’s a catcher and he hit 60 home runs!” Certainly both are impressive, historical feats. But neither stops the argument in its place. Because maybe the other guy was valuable in other ways that made him more valuable overall. Context is necessary.

 

[Songbird]

“He’s a catcher and he hit 60 home runs!”

... who developed a pitching staff and they won the division title and came within 9 outs of making the World Series for the first time in franchise history; although, yes, I know, they don't factor in playoffs because the vote is done before the playoffs start which might be an antiquated way of doing things at this point.

9 outs away. Cal hit 4 homers in the playoffs.

-30- (unless Chet Lemon keeps milking this)

 

[Chet Lemon]

... who developed a pitching staff and they won the division title and came within 9 outs of making the World Series for the first time in franchise history; although, yes, I know, they don't factor in playoffs because the vote is done before the playoffs start which might be an antiquated way of doing things at this point.

9 outs away. Cal hit 4 homers in the playoffs.

-30- (unless Chet Lemon keeps milking this)

To be clear, I know you have not been making the simplistic argument I paraphrased. But it’s out there.

And, again, to be clear, I think it is certainly possible that Raleigh was the rightful choice.

 

[Songbird]

I think it is certainly possible

Who are you, Juror 8? lol

It's possible!