Jamie Moyer, HOFer?

[Shaggy]

Conlin's argument that Moyer has 11.2 wins a season, and Nolan Ryan had 12, is absurd.

Ryan also had 5,700 strikeouts. And 7 no-hitters.

If Moyer somehow gets to 300 wins, his only Hall of Fame argument would be a statistic that most people with a clue view as irrelevant anyway.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I'm more impressed by a pitcher who was one of the best 3-5 in the game for a 5-7 year span than I am by a guy who consistenly won 12-15 games over a very long career.

That said, winning 300 is far more impressive than most of the other hitting milestones that were once considered benchmarks for making the Hall.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Yeah, I think being the all-time leader in no-hitters and strikeouts puts quite a bit of distance between Ryan and Moyer.

 

[YankeeFan]

I will also throw a guy named Jack Chesbro in their. He had one big year for the New York Highlanders (Yankees) and the rest of his career, he was a No. 2

He holds the all time record for wins in a season at 41. In the list of records that will never be broken, this is at the top as starters don't even get that many starts in a season now.

Maybe he doesn't belong in the Hall, but his winning percentage was .600 and I think it's a way to remember & recognize guys that might be forgotten by history if they weren't inducted.

Maris & his 61 HRs are similar.

I wouldn't include a bum who had one good year, but a borderline guy who holds the all time single season record for home runs or wins? yeah, I include them.

Yeah, but Don Drysdale was on the Brady Bunch...

That's what I'll always remember him for. Joe Namath too.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Who is the worst non-relief pitcher in the Hall?

About a decade ago I was at dinner with a longtime baseball writer who made a pretty decent argument for Phil Niekro being the worst in Cooperstown.

Can't say he was the worst, but in a strange sort of reverse argument, Addie Joss only played nine years before he ended up dying of meningitis. He was all set for his tenth year, and was going to start Cleveland's opener, when he came down with the disease and died quickly.

Joss won 20 games four times, and had a career record of 160-97, with an ERA of 1.89 (second best all time) and a WHIP of 0.97 (best ever). Cleveland was pretty good during that decade, with one second place finish and a couple of third place finishes.

But still, you wonder about what would have happened had Joss not get his disease. In his last season before getting sick, he had to shut it down in July with an elbow injury. Who knows if he would have come back strong, or just faded away and get remembered as a pretty good pitcher?

 

[Mizzougrad96]

http://www.sporcle.com/games/borkin515/HOFMoyer

Great game.

 

[Batman]

I made this point on the baseball thread when this came up, but it's worth repeating. The HOF voters, rightly or wrongly, seem to frown upon milestones reached via longevity. Look at poor Bert Blyleven. The guy has 287 wins and 3,700 strikeouts and he's not in Cooperstown because he had the good fortune to have a long career.
Moyer falls into the same category, only moreso. He's never been better than a No. 2 or 3 pitcher, and others have pointed out his less-than-stellar stats outside of the win total. I'd love to see him pitch until he's 50. I'd love to see him get 300 wins. Depending on how the "Sunday starter" rule shakes out, he may have a chance to be an all-star this year which would be cool beyond belief.
He's a great story. He is NOT a hall of famer.

 

[Batman]

Never said he was great, or deserved to be inducted into the Hall of Fame. But he's a good, effective pitcher, whether he's 27 or 47. And 60-65 percent of the time, the Phillies win when he pitches.

And those stats dismissed as "numbers on a bubble gum card" enabled the Phillies to win the 2008 World Series, to reach the series in 2009, and to stay in the race this year.

Your eyes tell you Cole Hamels is a far better pitcher than Jamie Moyer. Yet Moyer has six more wins (51-45) over the past four seasons. On the field results matter.

Moyer was good in 2008 (16-7, 3.71 ERA). He was not very good last year (12-10, 4.94 ERA). His biggest contribution to last year's Series run was taking it like a man and not rocking the boat when Pedro bumped him out of the rotation.

 

[BYH]

If he gets to 300, I'd vote him on the first ballot and every one thereafter.

The bad news is I don't have a vote, and have no immediate hope of getting a vote.

The good news is Moyer is going to pitch so ******* long, I've got a shot of having a vote when he's finally eligible.

 

[micropolitan guy]

Well if you judge by wins, I guess Strasburg hasn't pitched very well in his last few starts

He was good for six last night, thanks in part to some slow baserunners who got gunned down at home, but baseball's a nine-inning game. Hudson was better.

 

[playthrough]

http://www.sporcle.com/games/borkin515/HOFMoyer

Great game.

Basically "how many HOFs can you name from the last 15-20 years", with a twist or two.

 

[JC]

Well if you judge by wins, I guess Strasburg hasn't pitched very well in his last few starts

He was good for six last night, thanks in part to some slow baserunners who got gunned down at home, but baseball's a nine-inning game. Hudson was better.

Now this is funny, I'm going to guess you're one of the ones who think wins is the most important stat. How Hudson pitched has no bearing on Strasburg, that is completely out of his control.

 

[BYH]

http://www.sporcle.com/games/borkin515/HOFMoyer

Great game.

That was awesome, thanks for linking.

Got 'em all in less than three minutes.

 

[cyclingwriter]

Don Drysdale, Joe Namath, Deacon Jones, Wes Parker...all appeared on Brady Bunch. One of these kids is not like the other, one of these is not the same.

 

[BYH]

http://www.sporcle.com/games/borkin515/HOFMoyer

Great game.

Basically "how many HOFs can you name from the last 15-20 years", with a twist or two.

There were a couple there where I was like "no ****ing way."

I was surprised, too, to see the HOFer he has faced the most.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

I have a vote BYH, and if Moyer gets to 300, I'll sure vote for him, because that'd mean he was winning games in the bigs at age 50, and that would be Hall worthy.
300 wins is far from a meaningless stat. It is a lifetime marker. You have to have been able to get guys out for going on two decades to get there. It's not like it's EASY to hold a major league starting rotation job. Do it for 20 years, you are bound to be in the Hall conversation. Three hundred and you're in.
I see by this thread that once again stats are being used not always to illuminate, but to bolster the underlying assumption that most ballplayers just don't measure up to some imaginary concept of perfection, ergo, they don't honors or renown.

 

[BYH]

I have a vote BYH, and if Moyer gets to 300, I'll sure vote for him, because that'd mean he was winning games in the bigs at age 50, and that would be Hall worthy.
300 wins is far from a meaningless stat. It is a lifetime marker. You have to have been able to get guys out for going on two decades to get there. It's not like it's EASY to hold a major league starting rotation job. Do it for 20 years, you are bound to be in the Hall conversation. Three hundred and you're in.
I see by this thread that once again stats are being used not always to illuminate, but to bolster the underlying assumption that most ballplayers just don't measure up to some imaginary concept of perfection, ergo, they don't honors or renown.

This is exactly how I feel. I agree that Moyer doesn't compare to a Seaver or a Ryan, but I've always thought 300 wins and 3,000 hits were the marks that resulted in immediate enshrinement because of the longevity involved in getting there.

Now, if he ends his career at 292, he's not in, much like Harold Baines sputtering to a stop in the 2800s. But 300 is maybe the most magic number in baseball. I don't care if it takes the guy 37 years to get there. 300 deserves enshrinement.

 

[JC]

So Michael, in your hall of fame, being one of the best players in the game isn't a prerequisite? What Moyer has done is remarkable, I don't think anybody would argue that, but for me, you need to be an elite player to get into the hall and Moyer has never been an elite player.

If you feel he's a hall of famer why does he have to reach some arbitrary number to make it in? Is he not in if only manages 294 wins? Does his ERA not come into play?

 

[RickStain]

I'd like to again remind everyone that this is the Hall of *Fame*, not the Hall of Absolutely The Best Ballplayers Without Question.

 

[JC]

I'd like to again remind everyone that this is the Hall of *Fame*, not the Hall of Absolutely The Best Ballplayers Without Question.

and that means something different to every individual. For me, it should be reserved for the best of the best. I know that will never happen but when guys with ERA's of 4.23 are now considered HOFers I think it's insane.