Jamie Moyer, HOFer?

[Drip]

Interesting read and argument by Bill Conlin of the Philadelphia Daily News.
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/phillies/20100629_Bill_Conlin__Jamie_Moyer_a_Hall_of_Famer_.html

 

[Mizzougrad96]

**** no.

 

[PCLoadLetter]

**** no.

What he said.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

33 wins are a lot to ask from someone his age. I say no way does he get there, to 300 or to Cooperstown.

Interesting argument from one of the writers who didn't vote for Nolan Ryan.

 

[Liut]

No.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

They have a great sporcle quiz of Hall of Famers who Moyer has faced. It's pretty amazing.

 

[playthrough]

My first reaction was 'no' too, but what if he really can rubber-arm it for two more seasons and retire after 2012 with 300 wins?

 

[Drip]

I put Moyer in the same boat as Jim Kaat, pitchers who lasted long on the MLB level because they were left-handed, lucky, healthy, and had a little talent.

 

[copperpot]

Conlin builds that whole column around Moyer's win total. What are Moyer's other career numbers? His ERA is 4.22 -- definitely pedestrian. Ryan's, by contrast, was 3.19.

I'm certainly with those saying F no.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

My first reaction was 'no' too, but what if he really can rubber-arm it for two more seasons and retire after 2012 with 300 wins?

If he gets to 300, he'd have to get 15 wins at least this season (possible) and then have two more solid seasons (a little less possible).

 

[The Big Ragu]

My first reaction was 'no' too, but what if he really can rubber-arm it for two more seasons and retire after 2012 with 300 wins?

Then he should be the first guy with 300 wins to be left out, IMO. It would be a remarkable achievement, but Moyer has never been dominant or one of the best pitchers in baseball. Slogging through 25+ seasons, averaging 11 or 12 wins a season, with a 4 + ERA makes you a study in longevity, but the HOF is for the best players. Was Moyer ever even a number 1 starter on his own staff? Even in his best years in Seattle, Freddie Garcia was considered the ace.

 

[CR19]

If he makes 300 wins, he should go in the Hall. If he doesn't, no way.

Unfortunately, age doesn't equal success.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Jack Morris can't get in with a 3.91 ERA and he was much more dominant than Moyer ever was. I was surprised to see Moyer with two 20-win seasons.

 

[93Devil]

Jack Morris can't get in with a 3.91 ERA and he was much more dominant than Moyer ever was. I was surprised to see Moyer with two 20-win seasons.

He did a great job the year the Astrodome opened.

 

[silvershadow1981]

What Moyer's doing in his late 40's is absolutely incredible, but it's doubtful he gets to the Hall, even if he does reach 300 wins.

 

[Drip]

Jack Morris can't get in with a 3.91 ERA and he was much more dominant than Moyer ever was. I was surprised to see Moyer with two 20-win seasons.

He did a great job the year the Astrodome opened.

?

 

[Bob Cook]

If he gets to 300, he'll make it to the Hall, even though by the numbers he would be the worst 300-game winner to make it. Otherwise, he'll be Tommy John, sitting close but no cigar after a long career.

 

[cyclingwriter]

Interesting debate about magic numbers. It was the same debate when Don Sutton hit 300 in 1986. He was not as good as Jim Kaat, and probably the same as Tommy John. Sutton got in, John and Kaat are out. Is 300 really that much better than 295? 290? 285? Especially when the guys have similar W-L pcts, Ks, BBs, All-Star games, etc. Moyer's prime was 1997 to 2003, he average 16 wins a year during that time...high was 21, low was 13.

 

[micropolitan guy]

I put Moyer in the same boat as Jim Kaat, pitchers who lasted long on the MLB level because they were left-handed, lucky, healthy, and had a little talent.

Jim Kaat may not be a Hall of Famer but to ascribe 283 wins, three 20-game seasons and 17 consecutive Gold Gloves to "luck" and "a little talent" doesn't boost your credibility as an evaluator.

Kaat he not been injured for part of the 1972 season -when he was 10-2, 2.06 in only 15 starts, less than half his normal season, he could have easily won 290 or 295 games. He was still an effective MLB pitcher at 44 years of age in his final season.

You don't win a combined 500-plus MLB games, as Moyer and Katt have, because you're left-handed and lucky. Guys like Kaat and Moyer might not have had great arms late in their careers, but they could/can really pitch.

 

[93Devil]

Jack Morris can't get in with a 3.91 ERA and he was much more dominant than Moyer ever was. I was surprised to see Moyer with two 20-win seasons.

He did a great job the year the Astrodome opened.

?

He's old.