Yet another running shoe question

[The Big Ragu]

I have run on Asics (usually Gel Kayanos) ever since asking about running shoes on here a few years ago. Boom's recommendation, and I haven't had any leg problems since switching.

Thing is, the way I have always run is flatfooted. I don't run heel to toe, unless I force it, and it isn't comfortable for me. The flatfooted (but not heavy footed) running works fine with my Asics shoes, but with all the newer movement back to basics (and barefoot running) and the research demonstrating that a more flatfooted running style is natural, I was wondering about the five-fingered shoes (they look silly to me, but. ...) that I see people running in.

Does anyone run in those shoes, such as the ones made by Vibram? A lot of the running magazines have rated them really highly. I am wondering if it might be worth trying. Anyone have any experience to report?

 

[NDub]

I've seen them and have heard the same stories about the barefoot style being more natural.

I'm not sure your current running regimine, but you'll likely have to start out slow with these and build your ankles. The Vibrams offer zero support.

 

[Madhavok]

You could find a medium with the Nike Frees and go from there. When I worked for Nike we couldn't keep those sneakers in stock.

 

[beardpuller]

I also run in gel kayanos.
I have had enough foot/ankle problems over the years that I am not gonna be lured into the minimalist shoes, until Jesus himself appears to me around the 2 mile mark on my running route and tells me they are a good idea.
Only over-50 guy I know who ever tried them ended up with a stress fracture.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Thanks for the responses. Still not sure if I should just buy a pair and try em and see, it's just that if they don't work for me, I am going to hate having wasted the money.

Beardpuller, I am not over 50, but I have given myself stress fractures from running -- when I was in my 30s. Both legs at the same time, and it was painful as hell. I couldn't walk, let alone run. One of my legs is still a bit gimpy, as a result and I have to baby it a bit. But I can still run, thankfully.

NDub, along those lines, after my stress fractures, I was supposed to get physical therapy, but I never went. I did read up on my own, though, and it sounded like strengthening the muscles in your lower leg and around your ankles was important, so I have really worked on that, and I think it is part of the reason I haven't had problems since. I work on them every day, after stretching.

Madhavok, I will check out the Nike Frees. I am always suspicious of Nike products, though.

I guess if it ain't broke I shouldn't be trying to fix it, but I am just really curious about those shoes. They seem to be designed for the way I run naturally.

 

[TigerVols]

Ragu,

Are you familiar with the Primal movement? Espoused by Mark Sisson and his website, http://www.marksdailyapple.com/, Primal is a fast-growing eating and exercising theory and one of the main points is that modern running shoes are terrible for our bodies. The Vibrams are hugely popular with these folks.

Having a shoe fetish myself, I haven't brought myself to buy them because, frankly, people look absurd wearing them. But having spoken to footwear dealers at REI, I've learned that the sizing on these things are very, very tricky. One rep told me that every single pair their store had sold had been returned and replaced by a different size. So if you buy them, don't do it by mail order.

Have you tried Salomons? I swear by them, as the 9 pairs I've burned through in the past 4 years attest. These shoes are also worn by just about all of the Survivor contestants, FWIW.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Tiger, Thanks. I have seen things about the Primal movement, saw the Real Sports segment on HBO and see people running in Vibrams (and even barefoot) in Central Park. But I don't know a ton, other than from what I do know, it makes sense intuitively, because I never ran heel to toe the way they tried to get me to, and I have had trouble with modern running shoes in the past.

I don't know anything about Salomons, but from the photo that looks like a hiking shoe or a trail running shoe and I am not sure that would work for me. Unless I am wrong about them. I like for my feet to feel light and because of my history with stress fractures I am careful about the surfaces I run on. But I will read up more about them.

 

[zebracoy]

Do we need a running thread on this?

 

[beardpuller]

BTW, Ragu, I wasn't implying that you are over 50, I was stating why I am leery, cuz I am, sadly, over 50.

 

[The Big Ragu]

BTW, Ragu, I wasn't implying that you are over 50, I was stating why I am leery, cuz I am, sadly, over 50.

I know. Thing is, at 43 I am really feeling my limitations. I can tell it goes downhill from here. But I did happen to do a pretty long run this morning and I am floating in endorphins still, a few hours later!

 

[poindexter]

Does anyone run in those shoes, such as the ones made by Vibram? A lot of the running magazines have rated them really highly. I am wondering if it might be worth trying. Anyone have any experience to report?

I run 5 or 6 days a week, usually 3 miles or so. I got a pair of vibrams this spring. I like them a lot. Shoes, regardless of the sport, have never made a difference for me.. but I like these.. they are so light.

I worried there would be stress on my feet, with no "support" but I feel fine with them. I only wear them when I go on longer runs (5-10 miles).

The only caveat is that it still takes me a few minutes to fit all my toes into the little toe sockets... Its kind of a pain in the ass.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Does anyone run in those shoes, such as the ones made by Vibram? A lot of the running magazines have rated them really highly. I am wondering if it might be worth trying. Anyone have any experience to report?

I run 5 or 6 days a week, usually 3 miles or so. I got a pair of vibrams this spring. I like them a lot. Shoes, regardless of the sport, have never made a difference for me.. but I like these.. they are so light.

I worried there would be stress on my feet, with no "support" but I feel fine with them. I only wear them when I go on longer runs (5-10 miles).

The only caveat is that it still takes me a few minutes to fit all my toes into the little toe sockets... Its kind of a pain in the ass.

Thanks, poin. I am going to size up a pair and order them. If they don't work out for me, I'll eat the cost. What do you use, the classic ones or one of the other models?

 

[poindexter]

I am a pretty cheap *******, but I thought, 'what the hell'... several people in line said they had a pair and loved them.

I got this warning several times - don't go on long runs with them until you break them in - or more specifically, break your body/legs into getting used to them.

It's probably psychological, but i don't want to run long distances without them. Oh, and I wash them almost every time, and put them out in the sun to dry.

Oh, and I think i look like a total tool in them, but i think its worth it.

This is the set I have.

 

[fromthebluegrass]

Here is another option for folks who don't like the FiveFingers, but want to try something with Vibram soles -- the Merrell Glove series. This pair is the Men's Barefoot Sonic Glove

I have a pair of the Merrell Trail Gloves that I have used on both trails and streets. I really like them a lot. The only thing I've noticed is that it really eats at your calves starting out.

 

[DocTalk]

It may be that the minimalist running movement has it right...or not. It is important to transition to non-support shoes very slowly gradually increasing miles. There is a steep learning curve for the body and numerous injuries may occur in the first few attempts to use the new shoes.

 

[SF_Express]

I'm on my sixth pair of Newtons, with No. 7 this week (the new MV2, 5.8 ounces). They're not cheap, and I won't be responsible for anybody who gets hurt trying them out, but when I bought my first pair, I was 210, and now I'm about 180 and change and running 5K in the 22:30 to 23:00 range, with high hopes for much better in the next few months.

Newtons changed my life, to the point that I want to like the minimalist offerings of other manufacturers but don't want to mess with success. When I bought my first pair, I had chronic Achilles issues; those were gone in two weeks. I've had to revamp the way I run, and it's an ongoing process not to slip back, but when it's really working -- quicker cadence with shorter strides, leaning slightly forward, arm movement key -- it's a revelation.

I can't get my head around Vibrams, but it's not just aesthetics; we had two people run in them in our Corporate Run last March, and the metal grates on the bridges killed 'em. And again, I'm so pleased with Newtons that I'm just not going to mess with it.

But you have to go all in; cheapest pair is $125, and I've spent $175 (with a slight discount) for a couple of the pairs of trainers.

So all I can tell is they worked -- spectacularly -- for me, and you can't discount the Achilles deal; I had bad problems. They went away with Newton shoes.

 

[Moderator1]

A buddy of mine is an exec with Newton. I need to get him to hook me up.

SF, you've done a terrific job. I've lost 40 pounds in recent months but I'm still too heavy (working on it). That's what worries me about a Newton. Not yet. I still need a lot of support as I work to get back to my fightin' weight.

Am I nuts? Should I take the plunge now?

My buddy swears by them, too. Unlike you, he's quite biased.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Moddy, Good work on the weight loss. Are you doing a lot of running? I am looking into Newtons and asking around too, as a result of this thread, for what its worth. I may be crazy, because nothing here is broke, so why fix it? But I get the feeling I can do even better than I am.

Doc, I will ease into it, if I make any sort of switch. I have learned my lessons. When I had my stress fractures, they started out as shin splints and I just kept running on it until I did pretty good damage. It changed my attitudes toward everything.

SF, Cost sucks, I pay a lot for my Asics (although usually I wait till I can find a deal at Holabird or one of a handful online sites that may suddenly offer then cheaper, and then buy 2 or 3 pairs -- usually when they are moving from one model to the next and trying to get rid of what they have in inventory).

 

[jlee]

I have a pair of Vibrams and love 'em. I run like you Ragu, and after some breaking in, running seems a bit more natural. Then again, I walked everywhere barefoot when I was a kid, so maybe it's just me.

I met a guy who got a stress fracture from wearing them, so I was quite cautious. I wore them just walking around town for several weeks before even trying to run in them. Even now, I try to step on dirt and grass as much as possible (pavement did a number on my knees in college, anyway).

Also, they can double as watershoes and I've had no problem swimming in them, which is quite handy in lakes and rivers with rocky bottoms.

 

[SF_Express]

A buddy of mine is an exec with Newton. I need to get him to hook me up.

SF, you've done a terrific job. I've lost 40 pounds in recent months but I'm still too heavy (working on it). That's what worries me about a Newton. Not yet. I still need a lot of support as I work to get back to my fightin' weight.

Am I nuts? Should I take the plunge now?

My buddy swears by them, too. Unlike you, he's quite biased.

If you buy the whole thing -- if you ease into it very gradually (they give you guidelines), if you take shorter, quicker strides, if you land with your feet under you instead of out in front of you (I'm still fighting the form thing all the time, because I was a reacher way back to when I was a high school miler and always equated long strides with speed, but getting gradually better) -- I don't know that it matters how much you weigh. But if you buy Newtons and then keep landing way back on your heels, you're both missing the point and likely to get hurt. The "lugs" for Newton are right in the middle of the forefoot, and there's no extra padding in the heel.

I've been in them for more than a year and still fighting it all the time, but here's an oddity I'm finding -- I tend to run more like you're supposed to the more minimalist the shoe (you have to, or you'll break your ankles). Running barefoot -- on the artificial soccer field behind my condo, but a beach could work, too -- helped me get a feel for what it was supposed to be like.