RIP David Ogden Stiers

[albert777]

I thought Winchester was a big improvement over Frank Burns, who Larry Linville played as a sap, totally at odds with the original Frank Burns, played by Robert Duvall in the movie. I liked Honeycutt OK, but the one I never really bought was Harry Morgan taking on the Henry Blake role. The whole point of that role was as the clueless leader playing along/fitting right in with the antics of Hawkeye and Trapper John/BJ. The way they wrote the Sherman Potter role, to me, was at odds with the whole M*A*S*H schtick. And, besides, I always saw Bill Gannon from Dragnet when I watched him on M*A*S*H.

 

[mateen]

Obviously a show won't be the same after ten years, but it was always astonishing to me how much M*A*S*H changed in some ways, particularly in the style of its humor, over the course of its run. The first few episodes had a black character named Spearchucker, something I rather doubt you would have seen in the later years (admittedly that also reflects broader cultural changes from 1972 to 1983).

 

[albert777]

Obviously a show won't be the same after ten years, but it was always astonishing to me how much M*A*S*H changed in some ways, particularly in the style of its humor, over the course of its run. The first few episodes had a black character named Spearchucker, something I rather doubt you would have seen in the later years (admittedly that also reflects broader cultural changes from 1972 to 1983).

Spearchucker Jones was a character in the movie, which was satire of the highest order. He was a ringer, a college (or pro) back that a competing unit brought in for an inter-squad football game involving the 4077 that was a key plot device in the movie.

 

[outofplace]

I thought Winchester was a big improvement over Frank Burns, who Larry Linville played as a sap, totally at odds with the original Frank Burns, played by Robert Duvall in the movie. I liked Honeycutt OK, but the one I never really bought was Harry Morgan taking on the Henry Blake role. The whole point of that role was as the clueless leader playing along/fitting right in with the antics of Hawkeye and Trapper John/BJ. The way they wrote the Sherman Potter role, to me, was at odds with the whole M*A*S*H schtick. And, besides, I always saw Bill Gannon from Dragnet when I watched him on M*A*S*H.

I think part of the show's longevity was that it did adapt over time. When Linville left, rather than try to replicate the character, they created somebody very different to take his place. The same was true of Potter taking Blake's place and B.J. replacing Trapper. The changes in character also allowed for different types of stories. For example, one episode revolved around B.J. developing feelings for a woman who was visiting. They couldn't tell that story with Trapper because there wouldn't have been a conflict. It was well-established that Trapper was unfaithful to his wife, but B.J. wasn't. He was more of a contrast to Hawkeye as well, which I thought worked well.

 

[albert777]

I think part of the show's longevity was that it did adapt over time. When Linville left, rather than try to replicate the character, they created somebody very different to take his place. The same was true of Potter taking Blake's place and B.J. replacing Trapper. The changes in character also allowed for different types of stories. For example, one episode revolved around B.J. developing feelings for a woman who was visiting. They couldn't tell that story with Trapper because there wouldn't have been a conflict. It was well-established that Trapper was unfaithful to his wife, but B.J. wasn't. He was more of a contrast to Hawkeye as well, which I thought worked well.

Very good points. I think part of my issue was that I was such a fan of the movie, which was screamingly subversive, that I tended to view any tinkering with the formula to be a mild form of heresy. And, too, it's the difference between a movie and episodic TV. It's hard to maintain the level of lunacy in the movie when you have to write 20-something new scripts over a 10-plus year period.

 

[justgladtobehere]

Spearchucker Jones was a character in the movie, which was satire of the highest order. He was a ringer, a college (or pro) back that a competing unit brought in for an inter-squad football game involving the 4077 that was a key plot device in the movie.

Spearchucker Jones was the ringer the 4077th brought in because the other squad was so good. (I think they were ringers).

 

[Huggy]

I think part of the show's longevity was that it did adapt over time. When Linville left, rather than try to replicate the character, they created somebody very different to take his place. The same was true of Potter taking Blake's place and B.J. replacing Trapper. The changes in character also allowed for different types of stories. For example, one episode revolved around B.J. developing feelings for a woman who was visiting. They couldn't tell that story with Trapper because there wouldn't have been a conflict. It was well-established that Trapper was unfaithful to his wife, but B.J. wasn't. He was more of a contrast to Hawkeye as well, which I thought worked well.

To me Potter was the anti-Henry Blake which was needed too. When Blake was in charge the inmates ran the asylum, he was a bumbling leader. Potter was older, regular army, a guy who commanded respect.

 

[FileNotFound]

To me Potter was the anti-Henry Blake which was needed too. When Blake was in charge the inmates ran the asylum, he was a bumbling leader. Potter was older, regular army, a guy who commanded respect.

I’ve never met @Moderator1 , but I imagine him to be a Col. Potter type.

 

[Neutral Corner]

I loved how they handled bringing in Col. Potter after killing off Henry Blake. He walks into the office, looks at Radar, and says "That filing cabinet. Move it over on that wall.". It was a simple gesture which told anyone who walked in that things had changed.

 

[Moderator1]

Who knows - maybe you HAVE met me and didn't know it? I was the heavier, older, bald guy.

 

[EStreetJoe]

Very nice job by whomever did it, but they left out Patrick Swayze.

 

[EStreetJoe]

Spearchucker Jones was the ringer the 4077th brought in because the other squad was so good. (I think they were ringers).

The other squad was good, but also had a former college/pro star on it.
To quote Radar in the movie "I think their ringer just recognized our ringer"

 

[HC]

Who knows - maybe you HAVE met me and didn't know it? I was the heavier, older, bald guy.

... with the cool socks.

 

[Moderator1]

That too! And an awesome dog, though she may not have been with me.

 

[outofplace]

Very good points. I think part of my issue was that I was such a fan of the movie, which was screamingly subversive, that I tended to view any tinkering with the formula to be a mild form of heresy. And, too, it's the difference between a movie and episodic TV. It's hard to maintain the level of lunacy in the movie when you have to write 20-something new scripts over a 10-plus year period.

That makes sense. I first discovered MASH fairly late in its run on television. The series started the year I was born, so I caught up on the old episodes through re-runs. I'm fairly certain Col. Potter, B.J. and Winchester were already on the show before I started watching, though I've seen it enough in re-runs that it runs together a bit for me.

I didn't see the movie until years later, so all of that gave me a very different perspective on the show from someone who saw the movie first.

 

[WriteThinking]

I didn't see the movie until years later, so all of that gave me a very different perspective on the show from someone who saw the movie first.

The same went for me. I liked the show very much, all throughout its run, although I'm not someone who will sit and watch all the reruns all the time. On the other hand, I hated the movie, although, just for full disclosure, I've never watched it in its entirety. I've tried a couple times, and can't seem to make it through it.

Others who watched the movie and liked it, and preferred the early-run shows, contend that it was funnier then. Perhaps that's the case and it was just me, because I think I liked having more of a mix of the madness and the message, especially as occurred later in the show, in comparison to the movie and the earlier shows. But I liked the show throughout. I didn't mind that it and the characters changed, because they should over a long haul, anyway.

 

[BTExpress]

Seeing Klinger get a Section 8 in about, oh, Season 4 would have been fine and dandy.

 

[Slacker]

M*A*S*H went pretty liberal once Alan Alda gained more control, and even more when Mike Farrell came aboard. There aren't many people in Hollywood who lean farther left than Farrell. That turned off some of the series' fans, including me. I still liked it, and there still were some good storylines in there, but the years of the madcap comedy mixed in with intense operating room scenes were the series' best years. And, yes, some of the character arcs were just plain worn out in the later years, which also contributed to some desperate storyline tangents.

I had forgotten about that long, long kiss Hot Lips gave Hawkeye in her exit scene, and I still find it riveting for what it meant overall.

 

[cyclingwriter2]

The other squad was good, but also had a former college/pro star on it.
To quote Radar in the movie "I think their ringer just recognized our ringer"

Other team also had Johnny Unitas, but apparently he just sat on the bench smoking a joint the entire time.

Also, while I loved the movie, the uniforms and helmets they wear in the football scene not the right era.

 

[poindexter]

I don't mind saying I am wrong a lot around here, but I am right about the later years of MASH. It was garbage.

MeTV had a DOS retrospective this week. My wife wanted to watch one, and it was an episode from 1982. The writing was hackneyed, the jokes terrible. Winchester fell in love with a visiting French nurse. I think they even had sex, if I could read between the broadcast standards of 1982. Then she started talking about a future, about visiting his family, and he shut down 100 percent. There was no resolution, no 'aha moment', not even any comeuppance for his horrendous behavior (he felt his family wouldn't accept her because she lived with a man previously).

The other plot line was a standard plot line about Hawkeye and "Beej" working against the bad old US army. Done one million other times.

The show rode the coattails of the movie and the three Trapper/Blake years for an incredibly long time. Without the early years, that show would have all the cultural relevance of Gimme A Break! or She's the Sheriff.