NL Cy (with NL MVP threadjack)

[outofplace]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

I think you guys are forgetting that Santana sucks.

Sure, he was a nice small-market pitcher, but he couldn't cut it in New York.

Absolute money, Zeke.

 

[zeke12]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

It was a money post.

But a post worth $137 million would have begged to stay in a little longer.

 

[outofplace]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Nice work, buckdub.

I think the difference is the way Santana came through in two huge starts at the end for the Mets. Also, all other things being equal, I'll take the guy with the lower ERA.

If Lincecum pitches a shutout tomorrow night, he'll be at 2.5545. Santana is at 2.5348 after his final start today. That's negligible.

It'd be a 5-inning difference. Basically, a tuneup start. Not enough to give Santana the edge -- although Santana coming up HUGE today is, in fact, enough to make a difference, if you so choose.

Santana's performance today put him over the edge in my mind. The edge in ERA is secondary.

Edit: So true, Zeke. You didn't demand the ball enough there. My admiration for you is suddenly fading.

 

[broadway joe]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Tale of the tape:

Wins: 17-16, Lincecum
Losses: 5-7, Lincecum
ERA: 2.66-2.53, Santana
IP: 220-234.1, Santana
CG: 2-3, Santana
SHO: 1-2, Santana
H: 178-206, Lincecum
ER: 65-66, Lincecum
BB: 82-63, Santana
K: 252-206, Lincecum

Completely tied, 5-5.

Given that, you would think that the fact that Santana is finishing so strong for a contender might push him over the top, but I'm wondering how many voters have noticed, since the talk for months has been just Lincecum-Webb.

This is a good point. The perception is that it was clearly a choice between Lincecum and Webb for the last six weeks or so. I'm not sure how many voters will dump them both in favor of Santana kinda coming out of nowhere.

 

[buckweaver]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Santana's performance today put him over the edge in my mind. The edge in ERA is secondary.

I can't dispute that.

Although Lincecum's probably been more dominant, all things considered, Santana has come up HUGE in money games down the stretch.

Most outstanding pitcher = Lincecum
Most valuable pitcher = Santana

Cy Young Award = ?

Can't go wrong either way, at this point.

 

[buckweaver]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

One factor in Lincecum's case:

His ERA never rose above 2.79 this season (and that was on July 20). Before his last start, his ERA was leading the league at 2.46. If he played for a better team, he would have had a definite shot at winning the Triple Crown.

Santana's highest ERA was at 3.41 (on May 27), and didn't get it below 3.00 for good until July 27. ... Since then, of course, he's been phenomenal -- 7-0, 1.97 in 12 starts (not including today.)

As Zeke, of course, expected he'd be.

 

[spnited]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

I hereby humbly retract every bad word I have ever said or posted about Johan Sanatna.
Cy Young Award winner? Hell, he's a freaking GOD!



And now I have to get back to work.

 

[buckweaver]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

I hereby humbly retract every bad word I have ever said or posted about Johan Sanatna.
Cy Young Award winner? Hell, he's a freaking GOD!

A well-deserved post.

 

[SnoopyBoy]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Brad Lidge, anyone. 41 of 41 in saves opportunities for team that won the division.

 

[Dickens Cider]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Brad Lidge, anyone. 41 of 41 in saves opportunities for team that won the division.

No. 68.1 innings.

 

[outofplace]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

I hereby humbly retract every bad word I have ever said or posted about Johan Sanatna.
Cy Young Award winner? Hell, he's a freaking GOD!

A well-deserved post.

Well done, spnited.

 

[outofplace]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Brad Lidge, anyone. 41 of 41 in saves opportunities for team that won the division.

No. 68.1 innings.

Should be good enough.....for fifth place.

 

[zeke12]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

I hereby humbly retract every bad word I have ever said or posted about Johan Sanatna.
Cy Young Award winner? Hell, he's a freaking GOD!

Atta boy!

 

[buckweaver]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Brad Lidge, anyone. 41 of 41 in saves opportunities for team that won the division.

No.

No when it was 40-40.
No when it's 41-41.
No if it's 42-42 tomorrow.

Still no. Not even the best pitcher on his own team.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Brad Lidge, anyone. 41 of 41 in saves opportunities for team that won the division.

No. 68.1 innings.

68.3

 

[Oz]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Santana -- three-hit shutout of the Marlins today on three days rest in a game the Mets had to have.

He might have earned himself a few first place votes today.

And anyone who gave any thought to Sabathia, despite the shorter season in the NL, got something else to think about today.

Third straight start on three days' rest ... four-hitter with the Brewers' first postseason since 1982 on the line ... seven complete games in 17 NL starts ... 1.65 ERA ... if there's someone who can make a case to be the exception to the rule, it's Sabathia this season.

 

[outofplace]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Santana -- three-hit shutout of the Marlins today on three days rest in a game the Mets had to have.

He might have earned himself a few first place votes today.

And anyone who gave any thought to Sabathia, despite the shorter season in the NL, got something else to think about today.

Third straight start on three days' rest ... four-hitter with the Brewers' first postseason since 1982 on the line ... seven complete games in 17 NL starts ... 1.65 ERA ... if there's someone who can make a case to be the exception to the rule, it's Sabathia this season.

So, what do you do with the part of his season when he was with the Indians? Santana and Sabathia were both much better in the second half, so do you allow Sabathia the advantage of tossing out his slow start?

By the way, Sabathia entered today's game with a 2.80 ERA on the season. Still very good, but not as low as his numbers with the Brewers only.

 

[BadgerBeer]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

I will admit to being a Homer. I will admit to having a 12 pack in me (party like it's 1982!!!) but I vote CC for MVP and Cy Young. Toughest son of a ***** I have ever seen.

 

[Oz]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

So, what do you do with the part of his season when he was with the Indians? Santana and Sabathia were both much better in the second half, so do you allow Sabathia the advantage of tossing out his slow start?

By the way, Sabathia entered today's game with a 2.80 ERA on the season. Still very good, but not as low as his numbers with the Brewers only.

I'm not saying he should win. But if anyone's going to give a voter pause based on three months, this would be one of those occasions. He will finish in the top three.

 

[Bullrog]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Brad Lidge, anyone. 41 of 41 in saves opportunities for team that won the division.

No. 68.1 innings.

68.3

under-appreciated post for agate guys