NL Cy (with NL MVP threadjack)

[broadway joe]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

One stat not shown for the Lincecum lovers..

Left game with lead: Lincecum 22, Webb 23.

Anybody know what that number is for Santana?

 

[zeke12]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

One stat not shown for the Lincecum lovers..

Left game with lead: Lincecum 22, Webb 23.

Anybody know what that number is for Santana?

I, for one, can't count that high.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

I think Webb, Lincecum and CC are the only candidates with a real chance, and CC is borderline. I just figured there's no harm in putting the ERA leader on there.

Simon do you believe someone else could win or are you just being a smartass?

No candidates should get a vote other than Lincecum.

 

[BB Bobcat]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

I think Webb, Lincecum and CC are the only candidates with a real chance, and CC is borderline. I just figured there's no harm in putting the ERA leader on there.

Simon do you believe someone else could win or are you just being a smartass?

No candidates should get a vote other than Lincecum.

Well, I happen to agree that he's the guy, but I can see the case for Webb, and I'm sure he'll get a lot of votes.

Coincidentally, the race for the AL Cy in '02 was similar between Zito and Pedro. Zito had the wins and played for a better team, but Pedro had a much better ERA and more Ks and a lower WHIP and all that. Zito won. That year the difference in wins was 23-20 for Zito. This year it's 22-17 for Webb.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

I think Webb, Lincecum and CC are the only candidates with a real chance, and CC is borderline. I just figured there's no harm in putting the ERA leader on there.

Simon do you believe someone else could win or are you just being a smartass?

No candidates should get a vote other than Lincecum.

Well, I happen to agree that he's the guy, but I can see the case for Webb, and I'm sure he'll get a lot of votes.

Coincidentally, the race for the AL Cy in '02 was similar between Zito and Pedro. Zito had the wins and played for a better team, but Pedro had a much better ERA and more Ks and a lower WHIP and all that. Zito won. That year the difference in wins was 23-20 for Zito. This year it's 22-17 for Webb.

Webb spit the bit for about a month and the Dodgers got back into the race.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

And Wins has little to do with pitching prowess.

 

[BB Bobcat]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

One stat not shown for the Lincecum lovers..

Left game with lead: Lincecum 22, Webb 23.

Anybody know what that number is for Santana?

Ooh, just looked it up. Santana has had 7 wins blown by the bullpen, so he's left with a lead 22 times.

Simon, I agree that wins don't have much to do with pitching, but I think there's a large portion of the electorate that doesn't agree with us.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

OK.

I vote for Santana.

 

[broadway joe]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Santana -- three-hit shutout of the Marlins today on three days rest in a game the Mets had to have.

He might have earned himself a few first place votes today.

 

[outofplace]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

OK.

I vote for Santana.

Priceless....and I agree with you.

 

[BB Bobcat]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

I have to admit I wasn't giving Santana much of a chance until today. Seeing what he did today, combined with the realization that he had the bullpen blow so many of his wins, he's got to get serious consideration.

Right now I think Lincecum and Santana are the two guys who have pitched the best. Gonna be interesting. See what Timmy does against the Las Vegas 51s Dodgers on Sunday

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

It would be good to reset this poll.

 

[BB Bobcat]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

It would be good to reset this poll.

OK, everyone vote again!

I'm not resetting it again after Lincecum and Webb pitch

 

[outofplace]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Santana. He changed my mind with those last two starts.

 

[buckweaver]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Tale of the tape:

Wins: 17-16, Lincecum
Losses: 5-7, Lincecum
ERA: 2.66-2.53, Santana
IP: 220-234.1, Santana
CG: 2-3, Santana
SHO: 1-2, Santana
H: 178-206, Lincecum
ER: 65-66, Lincecum
BB: 82-63, Santana
K: 252-206, Lincecum

Completely tied, 5-5.

 

[outofplace]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Nice work, buckdub.

I think the difference is the way Santana came through in two huge starts at the end for the Mets. Also, all other things being equal, I'll take the guy with the lower ERA.

 

[BB Bobcat]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Tale of the tape:

Wins: 17-16, Lincecum
Losses: 5-7, Lincecum
ERA: 2.66-2.53, Santana
IP: 220-234.1, Santana
CG: 2-3, Santana
SHO: 1-2, Santana
H: 178-206, Lincecum
ER: 65-66, Lincecum
BB: 82-63, Santana
K: 252-206, Lincecum

Completely tied, 5-5.

Given that, you would think that the fact that Santana is finishing so strong for a contender might push him over the top, but I'm wondering how many voters have noticed, since the talk for months has been just Lincecum-Webb.

 

[buckweaver]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Nice work, buckdub.

I think the difference is the way Santana came through in two huge starts at the end for the Mets. Also, all other things being equal, I'll take the guy with the lower ERA.

If Lincecum pitches a shutout tomorrow night, he'll be at 2.5545. Santana is at 2.5348 after his final start today. That's negligible.

It'd be a 5-inning difference. Basically, a tuneup start. Not enough to give Santana the edge -- although Santana coming up HUGE today is, in fact, enough to make a difference, if you so choose.

 

[broadway joe]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

Lincecum did it despite a dog**** team around him. Santana did it in a pennant race. I don't know which one of them deserves the edge there. I saw a lot of both pitchers and I'd say Lincecum was the more uncomfortable at-bat. It was just harder to put the ball in play against him, as the fewer hits allowed and more strikeouts attest. I guess I'd say Lincecum by a hair.

 

[zeke12]

Re: NL Cy Young -- refresh the debate

I think you guys are forgetting that Santana sucks.

Sure, he was a nice small-market pitcher, but he couldn't cut it in New York.