Election Day Poll No. Whatever

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Who is going to win?

  • Clinton

    Votes: 75 87.2%
  • Trump

    Votes: 11 12.8%

  • Total voters
    86
  • Poll closed .
I think/hope Clinton will win, though my belief in our country being reasonable and fairly progressive has been shaken of late. I don't recognize this America, and I don't like it much right now.
This quote by Margaret Atwood fits: He brings out the temper-tantrum-throwing willful brat in all of us. ‘Why can’t I do what I want? Why can’t I have what I want? Those other people are stopping me. Those other people have a bigger lollipop that I do, I’m going to take their lollipop away from them. … Hillary Clinton is a better man than Trump. She has more connection to the traditional male virtues. She has comported herself in a much more manly fashion. Ask any real alpha males that you’ll know and they’ll say of Trump, ‘This is the guy we didn’t like at school because he was a bully, but as soon as anyone pushed back at him he started to whine.’
 
No snark here. Aside from your being a Republican-leaning voter and wanting to support your party, what are your that strong objections to Clinton? Also, please list positive ripple effects of Trump presidency.

I think she's as corrupt and slimy as the day is long. I think there's a lot more to the e-mail scandal than just simple carelessness, up to and including her selling access and foreign policy decisions while she was secretary of state. In the process of that scandal she's appeared to put herself above the law at a very high level, which I find reprehensible in a public official. In terms of character, she is as despicable as she tries to make Trump out to be.
Even though she's touting herself as qualified for the presidency because she's been associated with the federal government for 30-plus years, I don't think she's done a particularly good job.
Given her age, her health issues and the way those around her carefully manage her public appearances, I can't help but wonder if we're setting ourselves up for a shadow presidency ala the later Reagan and Wilson years. If she's elected, are we electing Hillary Clinton or Huma Abedin, and how much sway does the latter have over the former?
She and the Democrat party have also made it pretty clear that they don't particularly give a damn about me, a 40-something white male that they view as the past. They've spent a lot of time belittling me, my beliefs, and my modest hopes and dreams as things to be ashamed of while telling me I won't matter in 10 or 20 years and barely matter now. They don't care if I vote for them or not, so why should I give them my vote?

As for the positive ripple effects of a Trump presidency, it's more the effects it would have on both major parties and, I hope, the tone of the country.
Starting with the political, I honestly believe Trump is a symptom and not a cure. People on both sides are fed up. If the leaders in both parties recognize that (a 50-50 bet to be sure; they're just as likely to lash out at Trump and his supporters while trying to hang on to their own power), we could see some shifts in policy toward what is more in line with the will of the people.
Having Trump in the White House also means the leadership in both parties will work against him to a degree. The Democrats for obvious reasons, and the Republicans to keep him in check. That might help to limit the power of the presidency. A president ruling by decree and by bureaucracy is one of the more unsettling things to come out of Obama's two terms. Checks and balances are always good, no matter how they have to come about. In one of the great ironies, Trump could be a great unifier by bringing people on both sides together to work against him.
Socially, we've taken a sudden hard left turn here in the past few years. Up is down, left is right, man is woman, woman is man, the blue sky we're told is only blue because we probably ****ed it up at some point with carbon emissions. Progress is fine, but this isn't "progress." It's insanity that is gaining traction because it's been allowed to gain traction through sometimes misguided legal decisions. Hillary Clinton is almost certainly going to continue that trend, especially if she appoints four or five Supreme Court justices. She's said she wants to use the Supreme Court to advance that trend, to use it as a political arm to advance her agenda -- something that should make everyone shudder. I think Trump can help stem the tide a little bit with his selections, and he likely won't use the courts to shove his policies down our throats.
Finally (because it's late and I'm getting punchy), we really need to end this era of politics and clear the decks before it's too late. Trump is almost certain to be a one-term president. Hell, he might get bored and not even run for a second term. Hillary could easily ride the true believers to a second term and will most definitely run if the DNC has to turn her campaign into "Weekend at Hillary's."
A Trump election could help us move into a new era, with new faces, in 2020. A Hillary election probably delays that process until 2024 at the earliest.
 
I think/hope Clinton will win, though my belief in our country being reasonable and fairly progressive has been shaken of late. I don't recognize this America, and I don't like it much right now.
This quote by Margaret Atwood fits: He brings out the temper-tantrum-throwing willful brat in all of us. ‘Why can’t I do what I want? Why can’t I have what I want? Those other people are stopping me. Those other people have a bigger lollipop that I do, I’m going to take their lollipop away from them. ...

Oddly, that reasoning fits the way most people on the right feel. And the quote sums up, maybe not the way they feel about Hillary specifically, but liberals in general.
We're going down a strange path where no one is very satisfied or comfortable. We're lost as a nation. And yet we keep barreling down that path like an old married couple, half of which is too stubborn to turn around and retrace their steps to find what works, while at the same time blaming the other one for getting them lost; and the other half is afraid or refuses to listen to any ideas that might get them headed in the right direction.
 
She and the Democrat party have also made it pretty clear that they don't particularly give a damn about me, a 40-something white male that they view as the past. They've spent a lot of time belittling me, my beliefs, and my modest hopes and dreams as things to be ashamed of while telling me I won't matter in 10 or 20 years and barely matter now. They don't care if I vote for them or not, so why should I give them my vote?

This is pretty much how every woman or non-white male has felt, forever.
And while I share your feelings about Clinton's carelessness with emails, I also think there are many high-level politicians who are thinking, "Phew, but for the grace of God."
 
Oddly, that reasoning fits the way most people on the right feel. And the quote sums up, maybe not the way they feel about Hillary specifically, but liberals in general.
We're going down a strange path where no one is very satisfied or comfortable. We're lost as a nation. And yet we keep barreling down that path like an old married couple, half of which is too stubborn to turn around and retrace their steps to find what works, while at the same time blaming the other one for getting them lost; and the other half is afraid or refuses to listen to any ideas that might get them headed in the right direction.
I read that quote through your eyes and can see what you mean. And it definitely hits: you and I (and OT and Starman and on and on) might agree about food or dogs or sports, but we want a very different America. This election has exposed that more than any other. (At least for me -- I lived overseas through the '90s, so didn't feel the divisiveness.) When we emerge on Nov. 9, if your version of America prevails, I'll be the half of that old married couple to split for good. And I'll mean it when I wave goodbye and wish you luck. I can't live in a country that openly supports racists, misogyny and a president who's never done a single thing in his life that wasn't about his ego.
(Sorry Moddy if this thread went on a tangent you didn't intend.)
 
Hillary Clinton has been the most investigated person in America except for her husband, going on for 25 years now. She has yet to be charged with a crime of any kind, although she's been accused of any and all of them including murder. I think yesterday's new accusation, that she practice witchcraft with John Podesta, gets to the heart of the complaint. She's the symbol of women gaining more power and status in society, exposing deep insecurities in many men and not a few women.
My last comments Batman. First, let me say I am impressed by your candor and willingness to publicly discuss your thinking on what's a difficult decision for you. That takes intellectual courage and honesty, both rare qualities. But when I hear people (not just you, I've heard it a lot) say having President Trump would "shake up the system." all I can think of is the Aesop's Fable about the frogs who wanted a king, and King Log and King Stork.
 
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Trump wins. His support has been under reported all along - that silent Trump vote noted above - and I think many Republicans will hold their noses and vote for him rather than see Clinton win.

The more that comes out about the scandals and justice department, if anyone pays attention, is damning stuff too... And it won't go away. Clinton has been damaged by this.
 
Trump wins. His support has been under reported all along - that silent Trump vote noted above - and I think many Republicans will hold their noses and vote for him rather than see Clinton win.

The more that comes out about the scandals and justice department, if anyone pays attention, is damning stuff too... And it won't go away. Clinton has been damaged by this.
Red, I'm sorry. I just have to respond to this. My wife's best friend, the maid of honor at our wedding, is a career attorney in the Dept. of Justice, and has been since 1979. She served under Republicans and Democrats alike (in fact, although she's a Democrat, she said it was easier under Republicans because they didn't micromanage as much). She will retire after the election, an intention she announced back in 2015. She currently serves in the public corruption unit. You are slandering her and the other career attorneys of the department out of a, well, call it a lack of information. I resent that.
 
You can resent whatever you like Michael, but you're not going to get anywhere with me. Yes, there are good people in the Justice Department, but it sure looks like the leadership there impeded an active FBI investigation into a would-be presidential candidate. There are enough questions to consider that fair comment.

I'm not saying Republican administrations haven't done the same or worse, I'm sure they have done some sketchy things. It's time justice was for everybody and if there's proof Clinton treated classified material insecurely, or broke laws through her foundation, she should be brought to trial. If anyone in Bush's inner circle did likewise and it can be proven, by all means, I'd expect the same.

If a low-level federal employee jeopardized national security on a tenth of the scale Clinton is accused of, they'd be prosecuted and jailed...end of story.
 
To get this thread back on track a bit, I have the following question:

On Election Night, as you watch projections come in, which state's projected winner will tell you "game over"?

I'm thinking several as the Eastern Standard Time zone polls close around 8 PM. (Don't forget your clocks - fall back tonight.)

My initial thinking is NC, but of course PA and OH are right there too. There are several east coast tipping point states.

FL, because of the panhandle, will close an hour later.

Anyway, I would like your thoughts on what to watch for Tuesday night. And RIP Tim Russert. I still miss that guy and his little whiteboard.
 
Florida EST polls close at 7, panhandle polls close at 7 CST, one hour later. Because of the large number of early votes in the state, it is likely to be the first decisive state we know about, one way, the other, or nailbiter.
 
If New Hampshire and Pennsylvania go for Clinton, I don't see a path for Trump to win. If he wins N.H. it's a nailbiter, and probably leaves us waiting for Nevada to be called. If he somehow pulls out Pennsylvania, he'll win.
 
Hillary Clinton has been the most investigated person in America except for her husband, going on for 25 years now. She has yet to be charged with a crime of any kind,

Number of "crimes" Richard M. Nixon was charged with: Zero.

That's really a dubious standard. HRC is toxic. Really, really toxic.
 
If New Hampshire and Pennsylvania go for Clinton, I don't see a path for Trump to win. If he wins N.H. it's a nailbiter, and probably leaves us waiting for Nevada to be called. If he somehow pulls out Pennsylvania, he'll win.

This is probably true. I wonder how they'll treat Nevada with the early vote.
 
Number of "crimes" Richard M. Nixon was charged with: Zero.

That's really a dubious standard. HRC is toxic. Really, really toxic.
Impeachment is being charged with a crime. He was charged by the House Judiciary Committee. He resigned and received a pardon before formal criminal charges could be brought. There is as yet nothing that has been formally brought against Clinton. Maybe it will be, but it hasn't happened yet.
 
This is probably true. I wonder how they'll treat Nevada with the early vote.
Jon Ralston, Nevada's top political reporter, posted on his blog (works for a TV station there) this morning that Trump has a very, very small chance of winning there. BTW, I just spent half an hour phone banking, making calls to Pennsylvania. Out of 20 calls, 18 were no answers, one was the son of the intended voter who said his mom had a different number, and one was a woman who said, "you must have me mixed up with my husband. I'm the Republican in the family." My guess is that Pennsylvanians see an out of state number on caller ID and just know what it's about. Maybe that's why they needed extra door knockers.
 
Say who you think will win and why, please. That's all, very simple. Thank you
 
Just be careful, @Michael_Gee. I got a call from the Hillary camp this morning and the lady was so annoying I briefly considered voting against all democrats simply out of spite. I got over it though and won't let her influence me one way or the other.
 
Trump wins. His support has been under reported all along - that silent Trump vote noted above - and I think many Republicans will hold their noses and vote for him rather than see Clinton win.

The more that comes out about the scandals and justice department, if anyone pays attention, is damning stuff too... And it won't go away. Clinton has been damaged by this.

How many presidential cycles in a row is this silent white majority going to fail to show up before people stop believing in it. They just come up with a new name for it every time.

Wexler effect should have been the last gasp for this fantasy.
 
Just be careful, @Michael_Gee. I got a call from the Hillary camp this morning and the lady was so annoying I briefly considered voting against all democrats simply out of spite. I got over it though and won't let her influence me one way or the other.
They have a script for callers that is very inoffensive, and since my interview technique as a reporter was based on being super nice in the hope it might make my subject a bit indiscreet, I don't think I've pissed anyone off. The woman I mentioned in the previous post was really good humored about it.
But I digress. I still don't know who's going to win because there's conflicting evidence. The polls say it's real close. Early voting data, and about 30 percent of the vote is in, suggests Clinton is doing very well. I'd like to believe in the latter more than the former, but I just don't know.
 

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