Which Kennedy would have been best?

[Buck]

Bobby Kennedy, Len Bias and King Tut walk into a bar ...

 

[snuffy2]

Interesting question Allie -I say it would have be Ted. Bobby seemed too punitive with his enemies. JFK had the vision thing but history has not served him well so its hard to put him at the top of list.

Agree. They were all political animals who had held the best interests of the country at heart, but Ted was the best speaker and we owe debts to his tireless defense of working class in both votes and blistering speeches.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

Interesting question Allie -I say it would have be Ted. Bobby seemed too punitive with his enemies. JFK had the vision thing but history has not served him well so its hard to put him at the top of list.

Agree. They were all political animals who had held the best interests of the country at heart, but Ted was the best speaker and we owe debts to his tireless defense of working class in both votes and blistering speeches.

Still think Jack was the best speaker.

Timbre and pitch is a tricky read, because Jack was considerably to the right of what Teddy's become. That differential is in large part due to the gradual receding of The Patriarch from the day-to-day -- and eventually, from the picture.

 

[Boom_70]

Interesting question Allie -I say it would have be Ted. Bobby seemed too punitive with his enemies. JFK had the vision thing but history has not served him well so its hard to put him at the top of list.

Agree. They were all political animals who had held the best interests of the country at heart, but Ted was the best speaker and we owe debts to his tireless defense of working class in both votes and blistering speeches.

Still think Jack was the best speaker.

Timbre and pitch is a tricky read, because Jack was considerably to the right of what Teddy's become. That differential is in large part due to the gradual receding of The Patriarch from the day-to-day -- and eventually, from the picture.

JFK economic theories would look Republican today. I just think Teddy would have been able to use his oratory skills in the most powerful bully pulpit of the world.

 

[Boom_70]

Bobby Kennedy, Len Bias and King Tut walk into a bar ...

King Tut was wrapped in bandages from head to toe. The bartender looked at Bias and said what the hell happened to your friend.

 

[beardpuller]

I'll go with Ted. I like his Houdini-like ability to escape from submerged vehicles.

This is way clever! So original!

 

[Batman]

Joe Jr., who died win World War II on a secret mission to bomb the hell out of Germany, was the one the family had its hopes pinned on. Jack was seen as a fallback.

Wasn't he the one they sent on the mission with a plane full of explosives, and then the plane blew up? Always sounded fishy to me. But I guess it was the start of a family tradition.

Too soon?

 

[shockey]

Joe Jr., who died win World War II on a secret mission to bomb the hell out of Germany, was the one the family had its hopes pinned on. Jack was seen as a fallback.

Wasn't he the one they sent on the mission with a plane full of explosives, and then the plane blew up? Always sounded fishy to me. But I guess it was the start of a family tradition.

Too soon?

uuuuuummmmmmm, yup. : : :

 

[snuffy2]

Interesting question Allie -I say it would have be Ted. Bobby seemed too punitive with his enemies. JFK had the vision thing but history has not served him well so its hard to put him at the top of list.

Agree. They were all political animals who had held the best interests of the country at heart, but Ted was the best speaker and we owe debts to his tireless defense of working class in both votes and blistering speeches.

Still think Jack was the best speaker.

Timbre and pitch is a tricky read, because Jack was considerably to the right of what Teddy's become. That differential is in large part due to the gradual receding of The Patriarch from the day-to-day -- and eventually, from the picture.

Are you saying that Ted raised his timbre in proportion to a the Kennedy family decline ? Who is the patriarch Joe or us citizens ? Not intended as a snip, mostly curious. IMO Jack was way left of the minimal box in which Ted labored over the last 15 years.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

Interesting question Allie -I say it would have be Ted. Bobby seemed too punitive with his enemies. JFK had the vision thing but history has not served him well so its hard to put him at the top of list.

Agree. They were all political animals who had held the best interests of the country at heart, but Ted was the best speaker and we owe debts to his tireless defense of working class in both votes and blistering speeches.

Still think Jack was the best speaker.

Timbre and pitch is a tricky read, because Jack was considerably to the right of what Teddy's become. That differential is in large part due to the gradual receding of The Patriarch from the day-to-day -- and eventually, from the picture.

Are you saying that Ted raised his timbre in proportion to a the Kennedy family decline ? Who is the patriarch Joe or us citizens ? Not intended as a snip, mostly curious. IMO Jack was way left of the minimal box in which Ted labored over the last 15 years.

You're not snipping--and neither am I. Have to remember what a far-right
asshole the old man (Joseph P., The Patriarch) was. Jack and Bobby were raised as Roy Cohn cheerleaders, for heaven's sake. Jack was fairly rightest on domestic issues, at least until the steel crisis raised his consciousness re the
assholishness of many (not all, but many) big businessmen. Once Joe fell silent, then passed on, Teddy took the liberal bit in his teeth in a big way (too big for me, but that's another topic, for another day).

 

[Captain_Kirk]

Interesting to consider the what if for the ol' US of A had Bobby survived to take the nomination. I think he would have rolled over Nixon. Had he been able to survive further bullets (because no doubt in my mind that there would have been more aimed his way), there'd have been no Watergate, a shorter Nam, no Gerald Ford. The 70s (and perhaps the 80s) would have likely looked much different through that prism.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

Interesting to consider the what if for the ol' US of A had Bobby survived to take the nomination. I think he would have rolled over Nixon. Had he been able to survive further bullets (because no doubt in my mind that there would have been more aimed his way), there'd have been no Watergate, a shorter Nam, no Gerald Ford. The 70s (and perhaps the 80s) would have likely looked much different through that prism.

Maybe. But the anti-black backlash launched by LBJ was on the loose, even though we were smack-dab in Summer of Love-Land. A lot of people -- mostly GOPers, yes, who would vote Nixon, regardless -- a lot of people hated Bobby Kennedy for being such a self-righteous hardass. A LOT of people.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

Interesting to consider the what if for the ol' US of A had Bobby survived to take the nomination. I think he would have rolled over Nixon. Had he been able to survive further bullets (because no doubt in my mind that there would have been more aimed his way), there'd have been no Watergate, a shorter Nam, no Gerald Ford. The 70s (and perhaps the 80s) would have likely looked much different through that prism.

Maybe. But the anti-black backlash launched by LBJ was on the loose, even though we were smack-dab in Summer of Love-Land. A lot of people -- mostly GOPers, yes, who would vote Nixon, regardless -- a lot of people hated Bobby Kennedy for being such a self-righteous hardass. A LOT of people.

Fair enough. Rolled over is perhaps a bit strong. Still think he could and would have emerged the winner.

 

[shockey]

we'll never know, obviously, but there's zero doubt in my mind that bobby would've steam-rolled nixon in '68. 8) 8) 8)

 

[Claws for Concern]

Hey jerk-offs! Forget me at your peril! I am solid as hell in the middling, 1980s catchers constituency ...

Don't forget Junior Kennedy, a former Cincinnati Reds player.

 

[spaceman]

Yeah, jeez, we certainly can't have a self-righteous, vindictive hardass as president.

Oh, wait.

 

[RedSmithClone]

Personally I preferred Joe, until he sold his soul to Venezuela for their oil.

This is almost like the Bush experiment. Everyone knows Jeb would have been the better president, but now he's screwed for life because of his brother.

 

[Genco_Olive_Oil]

Interesting question Allie -I say it would have be Ted. Bobby seemed too punitive with his enemies. JFK had the vision thing but history has not served him well so its hard to put him at the top of list.

Agree. They were all political animals who had held the best interests of the country at heart, but Ted was the best speaker and we owe debts to his tireless defense of working class in both votes and blistering speeches.

I'm one person who looks at JFK's presidency and views it as extremely overrated. The Bay of Pigs disaster may be the best cautionary evidence for electing a young president. He was intimidated by certain people in his Cabinet and was far too conciliatory. Without diving deep into my history books, Kennedy was deeply regretful about that event. When he met with Kruschev---pardon my spelling---he was hopped up on horse tranquilizers, thanks to the bad back, and performed miserably. So much, in fact, that the Russian PM and his underlings scoffed at him and the U.S. and were very harsh in their criticism in private. We really don't know what JFK would have done about Vietnam---and that's because he was sending mixed signals. In an August interview at the compound he spoke of an opposition to war, but troop levels had increased during his presidency. He dragged his feet on racism and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was buoyed by LBJ after Nov. 22. And we all know about JFK's extra-curriculars. And who was one of McCarthy's allies in the 1950s---J.F.K.! He certainly enthralled the citizenry and was a great orator, but he was a politician of the worst kind.

I think that Bobby would have made the better president out of all three. He was the most intellectual, the most principled and the hardest fighter. His speech in Indy on the night of MLK's death goes down as my favorite speech of all-time. Bobby would quote Homer, Plato or Socrates to the masses in his speeches. Can you imagine? On that night in April 1968 he overruled the wishes of his security teams and advisers and announced MLK's death to the crowd in Indy, which had a majority of black attendes.

But one of Bobby's strengths---being a passionate fighter---would have been his biggest weakness. Even his friends said that he would cover up any Kennedy messes with the same type of hoiler-than-thou zealotry that he attacked organized crime with.

Teddy was the combination of each's best---and, to some degree, worse---qualities. He was smart and principled and liberal like Bobby, but with JFK's charms, confidence and speaking skills.

 

[old_tony]

Maybe someone a little older than me can set me straight on this, but I think both Jack and Bobby seemed to have very good bipartisan support. Sure, there were Republicans and Democrats back then, too, but it seems the country was a lot more united back then. Teddy hasn't shown me enough bipartisanship to make me think he would have been as good.

And, as someone noted earlier, Jack's economic policies would pass for GOP policies nowadays. That gives him extra points.

 

[DisembodiedOwlHead]