Running 2008 NBA Draft Thread

[a_rosenthal]

The Celtics had one of the best defenses in history.

Only if your concept of history is since the year 2000.

Not sure how much you buy into Hollinger, but according to his defensive efficiency measurement, the Celtics had one of the largest defensive efficiency margins since 1972-73.

So I would say one of the best of all-time is a somewhat accurate statement. If you don't buy into his formula, then you probably disagree.

 

[GB-Hack]

The Celtics had one of the best defenses in history.

Only if your concept of history is since the year 2000.

Not sure how much you buy into Hollinger, but according to his defensive efficiency measurement, the Celtics had one of the largest defensive efficiency margins since 1972-73.

So I would say one of the best of all-time is a somewhat accurate statement. If you don't buy into his formula, then you probably disagree.

Spnited doesn't buy into anything that requires a formula.

I don't understand why Miami is dithering about the No.2 pick. Surely the way forward for them, even if they're not sold on Beasley, is to take him, and get the best package possible for him from someone who is.

 

[spnited]

Who the hell is Hollinger and why should I buy into any formula he or some other stat geek invented?

 

[Iron_chet]

Defense wins championships in every sport.

I don't get why anyone would discount it.

 

[JakeandElwood]

The Celtics had a damn good defensive team. Saying they were one of the best of all time might be a bit much, though.

 

[GB-Hack]

Who the hell is Hollinger and why should I buy into any formula he or some other stat geek invented?

Told you.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

If I had to guess right now, the people in this draft who will be:

Hall of Famers:
Mayo, Beasley

Good, multiple-time all-stars:
Gordon, Rose, Rush, Bill Walker (my surprise pick)

Serviceable starters, reserves:
Douglas-Roberts, B. Lopez, Bayless, Westbrook, Love, Gallinari, Koufos, multiple others

Busts (out of the league in a few years):
Augustin, R. Lopez, Hibbert, Alexander, Jordan, Speights, Ibaka

Of course, I base all this on complete speculation. I'm about as far from an expert as you could get. But still, it's fun to speculate.

 

[Philosopher]

If I'm Riley, though, I'd be doing backflips if he hears DR's name called first. Beasley, Wade, Marion? Not sure what type of offense will be installed, but they should be a team to be reckoned with next year.

Everything I hear is that Riley is down on Beasley and is trying to trade down so he can get Mayo or Bayless.

 

[Philosopher]

The Celtics had one of the best defenses in history. In that case, it matters. But most teams aren't close to that. The Bulls, Heat and Wolves, for instance, aren't even close to having a good defense (although the Bulls have the guys for it).

That's not true. The Bulls had the 13th best defense in the league last year. Not world-breaking, but certainly "good". Better than four teams that made the playoffs.

 

[bostonbred]

If I had to guess right now, the people in this draft who will be:

Hall of Famers:
Mayo, Beasley

Good, multiple-time all-stars:
Gordon, Rose, Rush, Bill Walker (my surprise pick)

Serviceable starters, reserves:
Douglas-Roberts, B. Lopez, Bayless, Westbrook, Love, Gallinari, Koufos, multiple others

Busts (out of the league in a few years):
Augustin, R. Lopez, Hibbert, Alexander, Jordan, Speights, Ibaka

Of course, I base all this on complete speculation. I'm about as far from an expert as you could get. But still, it's fun to speculate.

OJ Mayo...Hall of Famer? That's a joke. He'll be good and make a few All Star teams, but he doesn't have the potential of the top two. And DJ Augustin will not be a bust, far from it.

 

[Alma]

While fully acknowledging that a great point guard (among the two best players on your team) surely helps a squad in stretch playoffs, it is, BY NO MEANS, any particular requirement to a great team.

Miami and Dallas didn't have them. Boston and LA didn't. LA won three titles with Derek Fisher. The Bulls won six with decent-but-unspectacular PGs. While the 80s might have been the golden era for that role (Magic, Mo Cheeks, DJ, Zeke) it sure as hell isn't now, and it hasn't been since the Jordan Era kicked in.

Nowadays? It's scoring in all the ways you can. Inside. Outside. Jams. Jumpers. Gab all you want about Kobe's all-around game, but it was pudgy Paul Pierce who stole the playoff show by outdueling LeBron and pummeling the Lakers with...just...sheer...scoring. He wore Kobe out on defense, which, in turn, wore Kobe out on offense.

There isn't anyone in this draft that can score like Beasley. He can score in transition. On the blocks. From 18 feets. On those quick putbacks. He can shoot free throws, too, at a 75 percent clip. Plus - you could play him 40 minutes because he has all-night energy.

Rose can't shoot like Deron Williams. Rose can't shoot free throws, either. He can't create like Chris Paul. His preferred method of getting to the hoop is simply to slash and bully his way in there. Let's see him try that for 82 games in the East. Can't wait to see him post guys up, too, at 17 feet.

Even more bewildering is Miami considering O.J. Mayo because he's a buddy of Dwayne Wade. If Miami feels like Beasley would steal too much of Shawn Marion's thunder, trade the pick, get the hell out of there and get a player for your trouble.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

If I had to guess right now, the people in this draft who will be:

Hall of Famers:
Mayo, Beasley

Good, multiple-time all-stars:
Gordon, Rose, Rush, Bill Walker (my surprise pick)

Serviceable starters, reserves:
Douglas-Roberts, B. Lopez, Bayless, Westbrook, Love, Gallinari, Koufos, multiple others

Busts (out of the league in a few years):
Augustin, R. Lopez, Hibbert, Alexander, Jordan, Speights, Ibaka

Of course, I base all this on complete speculation. I'm about as far from an expert as you could get. But still, it's fun to speculate.

OJ Mayo...Hall of Famer? That's a joke. He'll be good and make a few All Star teams, but he doesn't have the potential of the top two. And DJ Augustin will not be a bust, far from it.

I disagree. I think that as long as Mayo stays out of trouble (an iffy proposition), he'll be a 27-30 ppg guy for most of his career. And people will look back at his draft position and wonder why he didn't go higher.

 

[dargan]

Beasley will be the better player.

Why?

John Hollinger says so.

He also said Dwyane Wade had the best NBA Finals performance in history.

That fact alone should prevent Hollinger from ever being able to write anything again.

 

[Hammer Pants]

I don't think Alexander will be a bust.

 

[a_rosenthal]

While fully acknowledging that a great point guard (among the two best players on your team) surely helps a squad in stretch playoffs, it is, BY NO MEANS, any particular requirement to a great team.

Miami and Dallas didn't have them. Boston and LA didn't. LA won three titles with Derek Fisher. The Bulls won six with decent-but-unspectacular PGs. While the 80s might have been the golden era for that role (Magic, Mo Cheeks, DJ, Zeke) it sure as hell isn't now, and it hasn't been since the Jordan Era kicked in.

Nowadays? It's scoring in all the ways you can. Inside. Outside. Jams. Jumpers. Gab all you want about Kobe's all-around game, but it was pudgy Paul Pierce who stole the playoff show by outdueling LeBron and pummeling the Lakers with...just...sheer...scoring. He wore Kobe out on defense, which, in turn, wore Kobe out on offense.

There isn't anyone in this draft that can score like Beasley. He can score in transition. On the blocks. From 18 feets. On those quick putbacks. He can shoot free throws, too, at a 75 percent clip. Plus - you could play him 40 minutes because he has all-night energy.

Rose can't shoot like Deron Williams. Rose can't shoot free throws, either. He can't create like Chris Paul. His preferred method of getting to the hoop is simply to slash and bully his way in there. Let's see him try that for 82 games in the East. Can't wait to see him post guys up, too, at 17 feet.

Even more bewildering is Miami considering O.J. Mayo because he's a buddy of Dwayne Wade. If Miami feels like Beasley would steal too much of Shawn Marion's thunder, trade the pick, get the hell out of there and get a player for your trouble.

Spot on.

 

[bostonbred]

While fully acknowledging that a great point guard (among the two best players on your team) surely helps a squad in stretch playoffs, it is, BY NO MEANS, any particular requirement to a great team.

Miami and Dallas didn't have them. Boston and LA didn't. LA won three titles with Derek Fisher. The Bulls won six with decent-but-unspectacular PGs. While the 80s might have been the golden era for that role (Magic, Mo Cheeks, DJ, Zeke) it sure as hell isn't now, and it hasn't been since the Jordan Era kicked in.

Nowadays? It's scoring in all the ways you can. Inside. Outside. Jams. Jumpers. Gab all you want about Kobe's all-around game, but it was pudgy Paul Pierce who stole the playoff show by outdueling LeBron and pummeling the Lakers with...just...sheer...scoring. He wore Kobe out on defense, which, in turn, wore Kobe out on offense.

There isn't anyone in this draft that can score like Beasley. He can score in transition. On the blocks. From 18 feets. On those quick putbacks. He can shoot free throws, too, at a 75 percent clip. Plus - you could play him 40 minutes because he has all-night energy.

Rose can't shoot like Deron Williams. Rose can't shoot free throws, either. He can't create like Chris Paul. His preferred method of getting to the hoop is simply to slash and bully his way in there. Let's see him try that for 82 games in the East. Can't wait to see him post guys up, too, at 17 feet.

Even more bewildering is Miami considering O.J. Mayo because he's a buddy of Dwayne Wade. If Miami feels like Beasley would steal too much of Shawn Marion's thunder, trade the pick, get the hell out of there and get a player for your trouble.

Well said and we'll see what happens. For this Chicago Bulls team in particular, I love how Rose fits in with them. Without question, he's the most complete prospect in the 2008 draft. He's such an enormous upgrade over Hinrich, has the leadership/character qualities that GMs kill for, and will become an elite PG in the NBA. Because he's an athletic speciman, he does drive to the basket quite a bit. . . but his midrange is underrated as hell, he sees the floor as well as anyone in this draft, and he's still very young with time to develop. Once he develops something beyond 18 feet, he'll be putting up 20+ per game. And his defense is really good already.

I agree that Mayo in MIA would be preposterous with Beasley left on the table. You don't pass on a guy who consistently scored on triple-teams in college. IMO, it'd be like Seattle passing on Durant last year.

 

[JakeandElwood]

While fully acknowledging that a great point guard (among the two best players on your team) surely helps a squad in stretch playoffs, it is, BY NO MEANS, any particular requirement to a great team.

Miami and Dallas didn't have them. Boston and LA didn't. LA won three titles with Derek Fisher. The Bulls won six with decent-but-unspectacular PGs. While the 80s might have been the golden era for that role (Magic, Mo Cheeks, DJ, Zeke) it sure as hell isn't now, and it hasn't been since the Jordan Era kicked in.

Nowadays? It's scoring in all the ways you can. Inside. Outside. Jams. Jumpers. Gab all you want about Kobe's all-around game, but it was pudgy Paul Pierce who stole the playoff show by outdueling LeBron and pummeling the Lakers with...just...sheer...scoring. He wore Kobe out on defense, which, in turn, wore Kobe out on offense.

There isn't anyone in this draft that can score like Beasley. He can score in transition. On the blocks. From 18 feets. On those quick putbacks. He can shoot free throws, too, at a 75 percent clip. Plus - you could play him 40 minutes because he has all-night energy.

Rose can't shoot like Deron Williams. Rose can't shoot free throws, either. He can't create like Chris Paul. His preferred method of getting to the hoop is simply to slash and bully his way in there. Let's see him try that for 82 games in the East. Can't wait to see him post guys up, too, at 17 feet.

Even more bewildering is Miami considering O.J. Mayo because he's a buddy of Dwayne Wade. If Miami feels like Beasley would steal too much of Shawn Marion's thunder, trade the pick, get the hell out of there and get a player for your trouble.

Well said and we'll see what happens. For this Chicago Bulls team in particular, I love how Rose fits in with them. Without question, he's the most complete prospect in the 2008 draft. He's such an enormous upgrade over Hinrich, has the leadership/character qualities that GMs kill for, and will become an elite PG in the NBA. Because he's an athletic speciman, he does drive to the basket quite a bit. . . but his midrange is underrated as hell, he sees the floor as well as anyone in this draft, and he's still very young with time to develop. Once he develops something beyond 18 feet, he'll be putting up 20+ per game. And his defense is really good already.

I agree that Mayo in MIA would be preposterous with Beasley left on the table. You don't pass on a guy who consistently scored on triple-teams in college. IMO, it'd be like Seattle passing on Durant last year.

The only (possibly) bad thing about drafting Rose for the Bulls is that they have to make a trade. There's no spot for him in the back court right now, so they'd basically have to flip Hinrich and someone else for a good big man. Beasley, on the other hand, fits a need perfectly.
While Rose is probably the better player for them, they shouldn't take him if they don't have a plan to get rid of what would be a logjam at guard.

 

[Alma]

If Rose isn't from Chicago, no way the Bulls are even considering this.

It's a sucker bet, plain and simple. Hinrich is arguably the most popular player among the Bulls fan base (which, it should be known, pretty much has included all of Iowa, Missouri and Kansas for 15 years) and he's a decent fit for Del Negro's up-tempo game. Rose might be an upgrade, but not a significant one. Beasley, meanwhile, is immediately the team's best scorer.

PS…on Chalmers…he's arguably the best defensive guard in the draft, and he can stroke the long ball. I could see a Western Conference team picking him up as a Bruce Bowen type.

 

[JakeandElwood]

It's an interesting dilemma because Beasley is the best fit right now. Alma, he could be a big upgrade if they are able to turn Hinrich into a big, thus getting a better point guard and better forward by basically drafting Rose.

 

[93Devil]

Has anyone stated or still believes that when in doubt, draft taller?

I'm not talking Sam Bowie over Jordan either.

If you have two players who are loaded with skill, I always thought you went with the taller guy.

Am I wrong?