Potty Training vs. Cover 2: The SJ parenting wars

[Cadet]

I am glad the autism thread was locked, but there was a sub-discussion brewing on there that I want to continue.

We've got many posters who are raising children and many who are not. There seems to be smugness and underlying animosity across both sides of the aisle lately. Threads on education, autism, prom and layoffs have been recent examples.

Having opinions on parenting has been likened to a coach saying "you can't cover the game if you've never played it." And in some ways, that's correct. You never know what it's like to take the hit unless you've been the quarterback.

On the other hand, each one of us has been a child and had parents or parental figures. We all interact with parents or children on a regular basis, either through family, friends, neighbors or coworkers. You can study the Cover 2, learn how to execute it and recognize when the play was blown.

I realize this is an age-old argument and it's unlikely anyone's opinion will change. I also know the "mommy wars" and "childfree movement" are getting decent media attention, deserved or not. But I think we need to air some dirty laundry instead of sniping at each other in threads.

Thoughts?

 

[Angola!]

I have ideas on parenting, I just don't share them - unless a child is being babysat in my home or is under my direct supervision.

That said, the outlook of many parents on this site is annoying.

It amuses me when people act as though I have no idea at all to parenting since I don't have kids. And since I don't have kids, apparently I am not allowed to comment on those threads.

Whatever.

 

[Pete Incaviglia]

I wanna be on the record as saying I'm new to parenting, so I'll listen to what anyone and everyone has to say or suggest.

And I'd sure as hell listen to Angola, one of my favorite posters and seemingly all-around good and helpful guy.

 

[Write-brained]

Everyone is entitled to have an opinion on parenting. My wife and I had several opinions and philosophies on how to raise a kid before we had ours, and obviously they still play a role in how we choose to parent our child.

At the same time, there is a big difference between philosophy and reality. The chasm is so wide that it's really easy to tell on some of these kids threads who has a kid and who doesn't, and it can be really hard to give credence to someone who obviously has no idea what they're talking about.

That's not to say someone who doesn't have kids can't educate me on raising my child. I'm always keen to listen to doctors, nurses, teachers, au pairs and anyone else with knowledge of kids - whether they have a kid or not. There's a lot to learn. But it's safe to say that I'm a few steps ahead of most people who are thinking about having a kid or just had a kid. I was where you were, and there are people who were where I am - and I'm damn happy to listen to them.

You don't think I did 9 months of research, and then 4 years of watching and wrestling with the right decisions for my child? I'm learning something new everyday, much more than someone who was a kid or has a nephew or some anecdotal evidence.

The truth is most non parents haven't invested the time, research and energy in raising a child as someone who has a kid. Do we make mistakes? Obviously. All the time. This **** ain't easy. The only people who pretend it is are the ones who don't have kids.

 

[BTExpress]

The happiest time of your life is before you become a parent . . . and after the kid leaves the house.

Chew on that one, mommies and daddies.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1202940,00.html

 

[pallister]

And I'd sure as hell listen to Angola, one of my favorite posters and seemingly all-around good and helpful guy.

But don't believe him when he says it's OK for toddlers to smoke Pall Malls.

Or root for the Yankees.

 

[Cadet]

Exhibit A of the kind of animosity I'm talking about. We can have these discussions without the "my choice is better than your choice" crap.

Is that article worth discussion? Absolutely.

Parents of young children, do you find this to be true? Are those of you without kids afraid this "happiness dip" could become a reality if you choose to parent?

 

[imjustagirl]

And I'd sure as hell listen to Angola, one of my favorite posters and seemingly all-around good and helpful guy.

But don't believe him when he says it's OK for toddlers to smoke Pall Malls.

Or root for the Yankees.

OR put their hand down their pants in the middle of a street.

 

[pallister]

I set 'em up, they knock 'em down.

 

[Write-brained]

When you become a parent you will certainly sustain a happiness dip. You lose your freedom, your independence, your sleep. You worry all the time about everything.

Yet, I feel more self-satisfied about being a parent than anything else I've ever done in my life. Being a parent is the hardest and most rewarding thing I've ever done. Obviously it's not for everyone. You give up a lot. But yes, there are tons of happy moments. They're just not always continuous.

 

[BTExpress]

You worry all the time about everything.

That's the nut graph right there.

If you indeed worry all the time about everything, how can you possibly be happy? Just worrying about impending job cuts has made the summer of 2008 one of the unhappiest of my life. Can't imagine adding "everything" to that worry list.

But if you are not worrying all the time about everything . . . are you being a good parent?

Beats me.

 

[Write-brained]

I don't push parenthood on anyone, BTE. There's already too many lousy parents out there.

But happiness is sort of a vague expression in these terms. I was happy when I was young and single and going to the bars with my friends. We laughed non-stop. I loved sleeping in and smoking like a mother-****ing fiend.

Yet, my child gives me a sense of purpose I've never had, a sense of pride.

I happily give up my happiness for her.

 

[CentralIllinoisan]

Happiness isn't everything.

 

[slappy4428]

I'm not a parent and don't know if I'd be a good one.
But I know that Ms. Slappy's 2-year-old niece behaves herself more for me than she will for her mother. And it pissed her mother off -- not that I make her stop screaming or carrying on, but that the kid listens to me and not her.

 

[waterytart]

Weighing in as the mother of a 10 and a 7-year-old. Which means I have not yet experienced the joys of adolescence.

I think people without children are completely capable of flagging examples of atrocious parenting.

Borderline? Not so much. You don't know how you'll handle the dicy situations until you've been there. And you can't tell when someone who's generally a good parent is having a bad five minutes.

 

[buckweaver]

I think people without children are completely capable of flagging examples of atrocious parenting.

Borderline? Not so much. You don't know how you'll handle the dicy situations until you've been there. And you can't tell when someone who's generally a good parent is having a bad five minutes.

I think that's completely reasonable.

 

[Write-brained]

That's pretty common, slap.

My wife and 4-yr-old had a long and detailed discussion about where babies come from that continued over a couple of days.

And then a 6-yr-old down the street told my kid that babies come out of their mom's belly buttons.

Who do you think my daughter believed?

 

[dooley_womack1]

I know not a thing about the Cover 2.

 

[Write-brained]

I think people without children are completely capable of flagging examples of atrocious parenting.

Borderline? Not so much. You don't know how you'll handle the dicy situations until you've been there. And you can't tell when someone who's generally a good parent is having a bad five minutes.

I think that's completely reasonable.

I'll agree with that.

In fact, before I ever became a parent I wanted to punch people who a) sit their kids with them in the smoking section while they and everyone around them smokes and b) tether their kids to a freakin' leash.

Now that I am a parent I still want to punch those people.

 

[Write-brained]

You know what else I hate? Strollers.

Obviously you need them when you have a baby, but I see people pushing their 7-year-olds around in them. Let the little cherub walk. He'll sleep without you having to give him a shot of benadryl before bed time. Or, if they're younger, carry him a little and show him stuff.

And these same ****ers act like since they have a ****ing stroller they have the right of way. No it doesn't. It means you sit and wait for me to walk by, not push into my ****ing ankles or block up three lines at the ticket booth.