Parent Politics

[Irishcheesehead]

Why do parents have to be involved in youth sports?

I know I will never get the answer to that question but here is the scene:
Parent A: Very nice man, great family and a good coach. He coaches my son's basketball team and he is very encouraging to the boys. Shows them the fundamentals and I am grateful for that.
Problem: Wants to do things his way. HS basketball coach has become involved in the youth organizations to try and get an early start on some of the schemes (man-to-man defense) he runs at the HS level.
Parent A wants to run a 1-3-1 zone and ignores pleas and requests to "play along" with the organization. Other team in the grade uses the HS coach's philosophies and is considerably more advanced in the skills that are being taught (IMO).
At the end of the season, Parent A is asked to step away from coaching because of issues associated with his thinking (bad mouthing other coach, HS coach, etc.)
My son is bummed but I try to stay out of this whole mess because all I want is all the boys should play together and learn all of the same things.
So this summer, an opportunity arises that there could be a team mixed with both teams but need a coach. I said I would do it but need help implementing the HS coach's philosophies. It was like I turned my back on Parent A and all I wanted to do was give the boys a chance to play together. This weekend was a different tournament and it was like I was Benedict Arnold. Aggravating to say the least. End of rant.

 

[Point of Order]

Is English your native language?

 

[GoochMan]

One of the many ways that youth sports has been negatively impacted by 'adults.'

God forbid these kids learn different styles of basketball...or decide to play baseball (or run track, or anything else) during the summer.

 

[zagoshe]

The worst part of the story is that the high school varsity coach is involved in trying to force the youth organization to "run his system"

There is nothing worse that a varsity coach acting like he is building some sort of a Division I college program.

If he really wanted to help, he'd teach the kids fundamentals, he'd teach them how to play the game and he'd worry about teaching his ****ing system to them when the five or six who actually continue to play all the way through varsity basketball arrive in tenth grade.

The reason most kids don't have a clue how to play basketball is because they are put in some motion or flex offense when they are in fourth grade and spend the next eight years running plays.

 

[Smallpotatoes]

The worst part of the story is that the high school varsity coach is involved in trying to force the youth organization to "run his system"

There is nothing worse that a varsity coach acting like he is building some sort of a Division I college program.

If he really wanted to help, he'd teach the kids fundamentals, he'd teach them how to play the game and he'd worry about teaching his ****ing system to them when the five or six who actually continue to play all the way through varsity basketball arrive in tenth grade.

The reason most kids don't have a clue how to play basketball is because they are put in some motion or flex offense when they are in fourth grade and spend the next eight years running plays.

You hit the nail right on the head, Zag. Most of the kids on these youth teams will probably not play in high school. Some will move. Some will play another sport. Some will give up sports altogether.
For those who do go on to play on the high school team, there's no guarantee there won't be a different coach by the time they get there or maybe the coach will be using a different system.
I can see using the high school system in seven or eighth grade, but not before that. Teach the basics. Make it enjoyable so the kids want to play and keep playing.
If kids need more than four years to learn a system, the high school coach needs a simpler system.
This guy says the same thing about youth football. Actually, I got many of these points from this article.
http://www.johntreed.com/hs.html

 

[JBHawkEye]

I used to officiate youth basketball at the Y (it was a favor for a friend who ran the program, and it paid for my membership during the winter) and it was comical to watch these coaches draw up plays and then watch the kids try to run them. They were 4th and 5th graders who had no clue about screens and cuts and zone defenses.

One coach worked with his team just on fundamentals. His team knew how to dribble, pass and shoot. They didn't run any plays, they just played. And they won games.

 

[zagoshe]

I used to officiate youth basketball at the Y (it was a favor for a friend who ran the program, and it paid for my membership during the winter) and it was comical to watch these coaches draw up plays and then watch the kids try to run them. They were 4th and 5th graders who had no clue about screens and cuts and zone defenses.

One coach worked with his team just on fundamentals. His team knew how to dribble, pass and shoot. They didn't run any plays, they just played. And they won games.

Bingo.

Youth sports are far to geared to the wrong things these days.

I hate more than anything when I am coaching against a team - and I coach various sports at the youth level -- in a summer league where there are either no standings or in a league where everyone makes the playoffs --- and see the same five or six kids playing all the minutes while there are three or four more sitting on the bench and not getting a chance because "it is a close game"

Kids don't get better or more importanly, they don't enjoy themselves and thus are likely to give up on a sport long before their growth spurt, if they don't get a chance to play it.

The rule of thumb for all sports until the varsity level should be everybody gets a chance to play if they are on the team.

 

[forever_town]

I like what Jim Valvano said when someone asked him what his 8-year-old (?) should work on.

His answer? Something to the effect of, "He should work on being nine."

 

[JBHawkEye]

My two favorite youth parent coaching stories from when I was officiating:

• One of the guys who coached in flag football had playbooks for his players (these were 10-11 year-olds). One of his assistant coaches (yes, he had assistants, too) said, "That playbook looks like something Mike Martz would have." I looked at him and said, "Yeah, but he's not coaching Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk. He's coaching 10-year-olds."

• The Y had a no-profanity rule. Any coach or player using it was to be ejected and suspended for the next game.

So one game this dirtbag who was coaching one of his teams came out on the field during a timeout and started chewing out his team. He says,
"The way we're playing is bullsh ... I mean, bullcrap."

Then he looks at them and says, "Now get out there and F---ING BLOCK SOMEBODY!!!!!"

It felt so good to toss him.

 

[Bob Cook]

The funniest thing about a high school coach insisting his "philosophies" are implemented is that even if the coach is around long enough to have these players, he'll still have to re-teach everything, because he'll have volunteer coaches with no idea what they're doing "teaching" it at the lower levels.

 

[crimsonace]

Usually, when the high school coach gets involved at the youth levels, it's not about trying to make kids learn a flex or motion offense. It's about trying to prevent the youth coaches from teaching kids gimmick systems that pay short-term dividends, but cause long-term problems (like relying on a 1-3-1 zone, which works great against 10-year-olds but not so much against varsity players).

I've coached youth basketball, and there are two types of coaches -- those that teach fundamentals, and those that are hung up on their own coaching ability. The ones who teach fundamentals often are part of high school programs that are among the tops in the area. They might have 1-2 set plays or a simple flex offense, but it's mostly learning how to play man-to-man defense, dribble, pass, shoot and play basketball. Then, you'll run into a couple of dads who deploy every exotic press and zone defense known to man. I don't know if they have a half-court offense -- they never put one in. They assume they'll get enough steals and layups to win the game -- and they usually do against sixth-grade girls. Then, four years later, those kids get to high school and the coach gets fired because "they won in middle school" (running and pressing), but they are fundamentally deficient and the gimmicks and tricks they have always relied upon don't work against varsity players.

Our travel league actually had to ban zone defenses at the third and fourth-grade levels because of too many coaches putting in exotic defenses to win now and not teaching their kids how to play basketball.

 

[Buck]

If your 8-year-olds can deal with my 8-year-olds' 20 minutes of hell, that's not my fault. That's your shortcoming as a coach.

 

[Oggiedoggie]

Can a high school coach become involved in a youth program without violating the state's governing athletic board's rules?

 

[Smallpotatoes]

Can a high school coach become involved in a youth program without violating the state's governing athletic board's rules?

It depends on the level of involvement.
Running clinics for the players and coaches is probably OK. Coaching their son or daughter's third-grade team is probably all right, too. Beyond that, I'm not sure.

 

[zagoshe]

Usually, when the high school coach gets involved at the youth levels, it's not about trying to make kids learn a flex or motion offense. It's about trying to prevent the youth coaches from teaching kids gimmick systems that pay short-term dividends, but cause long-term problems (like relying on a 1-3-1 zone, which works great against 10-year-olds but not so much against varsity players).

I've coached youth basketball, and there are two types of coaches -- those that teach fundamentals, and those that are hung up on their own coaching ability. The ones who teach fundamentals often are part of high school programs that are among the tops in the area. They might have 1-2 set plays or a simple flex offense, but it's mostly learning how to play man-to-man defense, dribble, pass, shoot and play basketball. Then, you'll run into a couple of dads who deploy every exotic press and zone defense known to man. I don't know if they have a half-court offense -- they never put one in. They assume they'll get enough steals and layups to win the game -- and they usually do against sixth-grade girls. Then, four years later, those kids get to high school and the coach gets fired because "they won in middle school" (running and pressing), but they are fundamentally deficient and the gimmicks and tricks they have always relied upon don't work against varsity players.

Our travel league actually had to ban zone defenses at the third and fourth-grade levels because of too many coaches putting in exotic defenses to win now and not teaching their kids how to play basketball.

There is no need for a half-court offense in youth basketball. None at all.

You teach the kids how to set picks, you teach them to pick and roll or pick and pop and you teach the kids how to swing the ball and move when they don't have the ball.

You then have a couple of quick hitters ready for some situational stuff but if you've taught them the proper fundamentals, there is no need to call plays for them as they will generally figure it out and frankly by the time they get to high school they are much better players because they understand how to play the game.

The biggest problem with youth coaches is they don't let their kids play the ****ing game because they are too busy trying to win tournaments.

The 1-3-1 can be a very effective defense at higher levels (see WVU under John Beilein) as can the 2-3 (Syracuse) so I have no problem with 7th and 8th graders learning how to play those defensive systems because they are good to know and most varsity teams around here use them at least in certain situations.

But you are right, there is no reason teams younger than 7th grade need to play in a system that heavily employs zone defenses

 

[lone star scribe]

Our youth basketball league did not allow zone defenses, for just that reason. We wanted the kids to learn how to defend, not stand like a statue. I had two post players who scored a ton of points all because they knew enough to set screens for each other. And guess what? It even worked against a zone, when the other team would "forget" to play man-to-man for a play or two.

 

[Irishcheesehead]

The zone would work in the first half but then the other team would figure it out and start throwing passes to the opposite block and it was an easy layup because our guys "forgot" to drop down to cover it.

My biggest issue is Parent A didn't like someone questioning what he was doing.

If your objective is anything other than teaching the fundamentals through sixth grade, you should not be a youth coach.

 

[SixToe]

Our son's baseball team started the year 5-1 in non-league play.

They finished 1-10 and were just terrible. Coach's son played first and was a whiner. Other coaches disliked the coach after, in previous seasons, saying he was a "good guy."

The coach checked out about midway through that stretch of losses. He would just sit at the dugout watching, then between innings tell the kids what they did wrong. Told our son to stick it out but it sucked.

No post-season pizza party, no present for the coach. Not even a cheesy gift card or anything.

"Why should we do that for him?" one mother asked.

Sometimes I think the kids should be turned loose on the field and parents must be locked in their vehicles in the parking lot. Anyone who tries to stand at the fence or go to the bleachers to yell will be beaten.

 

[Alma]

Really not a good idea for high school coaches to tell youth league coaches a thing, unless the school and the league is somehow connected. And even then, it's not a good idea. It's not a farm system, it's youth hoops.