NYT scorches Auburn on academics

[Rufino]

Nice work here by Thamel. This may not be anything leading to sanctions, but it definitely puts some more mud on a less than pristine school reputation...

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/13/sports/13cnd-auburn.html?hp&ex=1152849600&en=c25d9c5a7d313bfc&ei=5094&partner=homepage

 

[slappy4428]

People down in Bama are laying a turd (either in excitement or warning).. I've seen three news reports and all prominently mention that it must be a big deal if the New York Tymes isa comin

 

[Ralph Waldo Henderson]

I really wish I could hear Finebaum's show tomorrow.

 

[westcoastvol]

Phyllis in Mulga's gonna orgasm like she's riding Howard Stern's Sybian on-air in the second hour when Slimebaum discusses this one.

 

[lono]

Is it journalistically responsible to use "Auburn" and "academics" in the same hed?

 

[tyler durden 71351]

Wow. Nice work. But who cares as long as them boys are winning and they beat 'Bama?

 

[dog428]

I'm seriously having trouble understanding exactly why the NY Times is wasting time on this piddly ass story. And it is a piddly-ass story.

Look at what is being alleged here -- that a guy taught too many classes and there wasn't much work involved.

It's presented as this athletes-getting-a-pass story, when that's clearly not the case. The guy taught 250 students in 2004-05. Of that, 25% were athletes. Of those, fewer than 10 percent were football players, which is the only damn sport at Auburn anyone would hand out grades for. So, if this is some great "easy grades for athletes" deal, where the hell are all the damned athletes? Then you look at the figures that are used and it's even sketchier. 18 players took 97 hours of Petee's courses in their careers. So, if each class is worth two or three credit hours, that gives you somewhere around 40 classes that were taken. So, in the span of four years, these 18 players appeared in 40 or so of this guy's classes. You're telling me that's outside the norm?

I'll give Thamel credit for obviously doing a lot of work, but I gotta take points away for trying to create a sensational story when there clearly isn't one, at least not a national story, which it would have to be for the damn Times to spend this amount of time and effort in Auburn. Maybe some local paper does a story on the professor teaching all these classes, but the Times?

Seems like not too much.

 

[Johnny Dangerously]

My guess? The Times knows there's more to this story, and this is the first of several chapters.

 

[dooley_womack1]

Man, dog, I know you're an Auburn guy and all, but having a system break down to the extent that a professor can be a virtually work-free grade mill is a big fricking deal. It may not be a slush fund, but dammit, Auburn is still supposed to be a university, not a farm system.

 

[dog428]

Man, dog, I know you're an Auburn guy and all, but having a system break down to the extent that a professor can be a virtually work-free grade mill is a big fricking deal. It may not be a slush fund, but dammit, Auburn is still supposed to be a university, not a farm system.

Hold up now. I never questioned whether or not this was a story. I questioned two things: 1) The way it's presented in the Times, as a grade-fixing scandal revolving around athletes, and 2) That it's a national story, warranting the NY Times to spend this amount of time and effort.

Certainly something is screwed up. Ain't no doubt. The guy had 150 of these classes in a semester. Nobody else had 20, from what I can tell. There's something amiss there. But if we're talking about classes in which far more everyday students were involved -- and 3 to 1 is far more -- then it's not an athletics scandal.

And for the record, I'm not an Auburn fan. I just simply thought they were hosed out of the Nat'l title game a few years back. And I think this story has been made into something it's not. That is all.

 

[dooley_womack1]

Well, they regularly have staff stories from Kenya and Iceland and Uruguay. So I guess Auburn, Ala., is probably within their travel budget. I mean, a story about a fraudulent academy or two in Chicago and Philly has spurred the NCAA into reform measures. Perhaps, as someone suggested, this isn't a one-off.

 

[dog428]

Well, they regularly have staff stories from Kenya and Iceland and Uruguay. So I guess Auburn, Ala., is probably within their travel budget. I mean, a story about a fraudulent academy or two in Chicago and Philly has spurred the NCAA into reform measures. Perhaps, as someone suggested, this isn't a one-off.

Hey, if they want to do it, that's up to them. It just appeared to me as if maybe there were a lot of accusations made and then when they got there and started digging through the ****, things didn't really pan out. But then they stuck to the original thought -- an athletic grades fixing deal. You know what I mean? Am I completely off there, you think?

Because you would agree that it's somewhat of stretch, given the limited number of athletes involved, to say this guy's classes were a "ticket" to eligibility, right?

I don't know, maybe I'm off here and JD's right, but when I first started reading it I was like, Holy ****. But then the longer I read the more it unraveled and then kinda fell apart.

 

[djc3317]

Dog's right about this. Believe me, when I first heard about this, my holy **** was a lot more deeply felt than his holy ****. I've read everything I could get my hands on about this tonight, as I'd heard a few days ago that an NYT guy had been talking to all the dept heads and they were looking to do an academic fraud story.

anyway, the more I read, the more I say, "eh...there's more smoke than there is fire to this story." this story's as much an indictment of offering independent study courses, particularly to athletes, as anything. I found out several weeks into my last quarter at auburn, while doing my internship, that I would be short on hours to graduate if I didn't do an independent study class to pick up a couple more. I took a class in the most remedial aspects of political science, had to fill out a workbook lesson once a week and take a final exam. easiest A I ever received (not that that's an especially long list). Did I have to do some work? yeah. should I have received college credit for that bulljive? no sir.

there was definitely something wrong going on with this professor offering all these independent study classes, but Auburn remedied that nearly a year ago when it cut the number he offered from 152 to 25. it looks bad, but it seems like they already fixed what needed fixing. If there's more to it than what they've already run with, well then I'll take it all back.

 

[djc3317]

I really wish I could hear Finebaum's show tomorrow.

I think he already talked about it Thursday, but you can listen live from 2-7 on al.com if you're so inclined.

http://www.al.com/finebaum/

 

[dog428]

Dog's right about this. Believe me, when I first heard about this, my holy **** was a lot more deeply felt than his holy ****. I've read everything I could get my hands on about this tonight, as I'd heard a few days ago that an NYT guy had been talking to all the dept heads and they were looking to do an academic fraud story.

anyway, the more I read, the more I say, "eh...there's more smoke than there is fire to this story." this story's as much an indictment of offering independent study courses, particularly to athletes, as anything. I found out several weeks into my last quarter at auburn, while doing my internship, that I would be short on hours to graduate if I didn't do an independent study class to pick up a couple more. I took a class in the most remedial aspects of political science, had to fill out a workbook lesson once a week and take a final exam. easiest A I ever received (not that that's an especially long list). Did I have to do some work? yeah. should I have received college credit for that bulljive? no sir.

there was definitely something wrong going on with this professor offering all these independent study classes, but Auburn remedied that nearly a year ago when it cut the number he offered from 152 to 25. it looks bad, but it seems like they already fixed what needed fixing. If there's more to it than what they've already run with, well then I'll take it all back.

Precisely. When I read through the first few grafs, I was like, son of a ***** this is gonna be bad. But then, when you started taking a hard look at the numbers, it just doesn't add up. At least, it doesn't add up to what the Times is attempting to make it.

Like both djc and I said, something's definitely wrong with this guy teaching that many damned classes. But at the same time, the ratio of athletes to normal students wasn't abnormal. And the number of football players is especially low. I just can't figure out why they tried so hard to make this an indictment of the football program.

Every college in the world has those handful of classes that everyone on campus knows are an easy A, and every college has the professors that are easier than the others. It takes about a week on campus to figure out what and who those are. Maybe that's the biggest slap against the football players here -- that they weren't smart enough to figure out they SHOULD be taking these easy-ass classes.

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

This is a hell of a story. Good work.

Remarks from Cadillac Williams are unintentionally damning. He couldn't even be specific about what the work entailed, just that it was "different kinds of math" and "you report on theories and stuff like that." Yeah. Whatever. And anyone who's been around college football knows sociology is totally a dumping ground for athletes, as noted in the story.

The average full-time faculty member teaches two and a half courses a term, usually more in the humanities. Computer science and business professors usually carry the heavier loads. Even without the independent study courses, that's plenty of work. A lot of the instructors with heavier loads obviously are junior professors or fall victim to fiefdoms present in each and every department in every major college around. This guy was a seasoned professor and had no need to assume that load. There's more to this story than just this.

 

[Twoback]

Two reasons this is a brilliant story that goes beyond the standard:
1) The acknowledgement that colleges offer lots of easy courses, and that others beyond athletes take them;

2) The refusal of the whistle-blowing professor to burn the students involved just to get "even."

The problem is the university, and it gets what it deserves.

Not surprised that Pete would present such an even-handed but thorough piece of work.

 

[Pencil Dick]

Other than the fact the New York Times Regional Newspaper Group has 3 papers in Alabama, what's the Times' obsession with what goes on in the Auburn athletic department?

A couple of years ago Selena Roberts did a less-than-flattering story on team chaplain Chette Williams. Now this. I'm sure the NYT also probably wrote something during the whole fire Tubby/hire Petrino fiasco.

I just find it strange The Times is so interested in what's going on in Lee County, Ala. No argument from me this is a story worth reporting - it certainly is, and Thamel did a great job with it. Just kind of seems like someone has the proverbial ax to grind with AU.

And no, I'm not David Housel.

 

[Bubbler]

Other than the fact the New York Times Regional Newspaper Group has 3 papers in Alabama, what's the Times' obsession with what goes on in the Auburn athletic department?

A couple of years ago Selena Roberts did a less-than-flattering story on team chaplain Chette Williams. Now this. I'm sure the NYT also probably wrote something during the whole fire Tubby/hire Petrino fiasco.

I just find it strange The Times is so interested in what's going on in Lee County, Ala. No argument from me this is a story worth reporting - it certainly is, and Thamel did a great job with it. Just kind of seems like someone has the proverbial ax to grind with AU.

And no, I'm not David Housel. 

Your question begs the question of why the Times would have an axe to grind with Auburn?

 

[Pencil Dick]

Bub,

I have no idea why, since The Times has already kicked native sons Howell Raines (Capstone grad) and Rick Bragg (attended JSU, allegiance to UA or AU unknown) out the door.

Correct usage is ax, sted axe, BTW.