NBA Playoffs Thread

[Stoney]

Westbrook is a freak, a force at the guard spot but he's far from a PG who optimizes his teammates' abilities. As mentioned above, contrasted with Kidd's "hockey" assist to the open shooter, Westbrook almost never makes that pass. He makes either the flat footed desultory pass or the fantastic pass, nothing in between, which is to me where the true PGs show their value, do you get your shooters the ball where they like it? (Similarly, Barea is a shooter and that's it.)

Agreed, Westbrook is an absolutely magnficent talent, but the problem is he's essentially being forced to play out of position at the point guard spot. He's simply not a natural distributor. He's incredible getting to the rim and creating shots for himself, but much less comfortable trying to find and create them for his teammates.

He reminds me a bit of early Allen Iverson, point guard sized, but more effective playing the shooting guard role. I remember how the Sixers instantly became a much better team in the late 90s when they stopped trying make AI a point and simply moved him to the shooting guard spot with Eric Snow taking over the starting point duties. It resulted in a very short starting backcourt, but also one that won a whole lot more (including a trip to the 01 Finals).

Wouldn't mind seeing OKC try something like that with Westbrook, but they'd have to find the right backcourt mate to pair him with. Maynor's the only guy on their current roster that really fits that natural point type role, and I don't know that he's ready for it.

 

[BrianGriffin]

Westbrook is a freak, a force at the guard spot but he's far from a PG who optimizes his teammates' abilities. As mentioned above, contrasted with Kidd's "hockey" assist to the open shooter, Westbrook almost never makes that pass. He makes either the flat footed desultory pass or the fantastic pass, nothing in between, which is to me where the true PGs show their value, do you get your shooters the ball where they like it? (Similarly, Barea is a shooter and that's it.)

Agreed, Westbrook is an absolutely magnficent talent, but the problem is he's essentially being forced to play out of position at the point guard spot. He's simply not a natural distributor. He's incredible getting to the rim and creating shots for himself, but much less comfortable trying to find and create them for his teammates.

He reminds me a bit of early Allen Iverson, point guard sized, but more effective playing the shooting guard role. I remember how the Sixers instantly became a much better team in the late 90s when they stopped trying make AI a point and simply moved him to the shooting guard spot with Eric Snow taking over the starting point duties. It resulted in a very short starting backcourt, but also one that won a whole lot more (including a trip to the 01 Finals).

Wouldn't mind seeing OKC try something like that with Westbrook, but they'd have to find the right backcourt mate to pair him with. Maynor's the only guy on their current roster that really fits that natural point type role, and I don't know that he's ready for it.

Jason Kidd would be perfect along with Westbrook. Kidd, like Snow, is big enough to guard a 2, so you don't get stuck with your 6-1 "2" being overwhelmed. But I'm not completely sold on Westbrook at the 2. I still think he can mature into a 1. But man, watching them play, I can imagine with a true point guard, Durant might average 32-33 ppg. Westbrook will only make the pass to him if he's absolutely wide open or if it's a pass that will make Westbrook look good (like a dribble penetration, tough, wrap-around pass for the layup kind of deal). He'll also throw it to Durant in a 1v1 situation if the offense calls for it.

 

[Matt Stephens]

Westbrook isn't a natural PG, but he's the second best one in the Western Conference behind Chris Paul -- getting rid of him would be a terrible deal. He just needs to settle down a bit and play his role better ... but let's face it, he's a great distributor.

Who OKC should dump is Perkins. He has been nothing but wasted space in the starting line up since he arrived. Not aggressive when he should be, too aggressive when he shouldn't. Kristic fit at that spot for OKC better than Perkins has.

 

[93Devil]

Anyone but Miami.

That is all.

 

[BTExpress]

Anyone but Miami.

That is all.

Yep.

There was even a little disgust a couple of weeks ago when the Lakers dropped the first two vs. the Mavs. Seems people were a little miffed that with LA out of the way the Heat's path to the title might be a little easier. Grrrrrrr!

In other words, "Yaay, rapist! Boooo, Heat!"

What else can you say but : : : : : :

 

[txsportsscribe]

Two of the biggest punks in the league already pick up double T's ... big surprise.

chandler one of the biggest punks in the league?

 

[Matt Stephens]

Two of the biggest punks in the league already pick up double T's ... big surprise.

chandler one of the biggest punks in the league?

Kinda the same story as Perkins, off the court, sure he's great, but on it is a different story.

 

[BrianGriffin]

I just hope they swallow their whistle a little in Game 2 out West. Game 1 took way too long and there were way to many touch fouls. How about the one where Durant goes up hoping to draw the contact from Terry and Terry pulls his hands away and Durant gets no contact as he throws up his awkward little prayer...but the whistle blows anyway. Two shots. The ref was caught behind Durant because he was too lazy to move into position where he would have seen there was no contact. Just like a defender, an official needs to move his damn feet to get in position.

Dirk shot 24 free throws. That's too many. But here's the thing: Oklahoma City actually shot more free throws than Dallas. If Dirk was being protected by the refs, so were Durant (19 free throws) and our boy Westbrook (18).

That's just ridiculous. Now, having said that, Dirk probably deserved to shot 16-18 given the way OKC was trying to play him. And Durant and Westbrook deserved their share of trips to the line. But 79 combined free throws between the two teams? C'mon.

 

[NickMordo]

Westbrook isn't a natural PG, but he's the second best one in the Western Conference behind Chris Paul -- getting rid of him would be a terrible deal. He just needs to settle down a bit and play his role better ... but let's face it, he's a great distributor.

Who OKC should dump is Perkins. He has been nothing but wasted space in the starting line up since he arrived. Not aggressive when he should be, too aggressive when he shouldn't. Kristic fit at that spot for OKC better than Perkins has.

There aren't many "natural" PGs in the game today. Look around the league, from Stuckey to Curry to Jennings, etc. The teams remaining (minus OKC) all have true points, so not a big surprise they advanced this far.

 

[Tommy_Dreamer]

After having digested the previous night's victory and seeing ways that the Mavs could've given that game away last night and didn't, I'm very happy about that win.

I think this might prove that these aren't the soft Mavs from 2006, where they got pushed around by Shaq and schooled by DWade.

Only Terry and Dirk remain from that team and Chandler and Haywood, for that matter, give the Mavs an inside presence Eric Dampier could only dream of giving.

They made me a believer in the sweep of the Lakers. I hope they can keep this going, no matter who they might face in the Finals.

 

[JakeandElwood]

LeBron has a cold. A breathless report by Craig Sager.

 

[holy bull]

Craig must have caught it ... somehow.

 

[Stoney]

There aren't many "natural" PGs in the game today. Look around the league, from Stuckey to Curry to Jennings, etc. The teams remaining (minus OKC) all have true points, so not a big surprise they advanced this far.

And perhaps it's no coincidence that Stuckey, Curry and Jennings all lead crappy non-playoff teams. Never been a fan of the Marbury style high scoring shooter point guard. They don't seem to win as much as the pass-first type.

Problem is a lot of natural shooting guards are forced to play out of position because of height issues. Westbrook and Curry are both tremendous players, but neither are naturally built for the distributor role they've been forced into, and both would be more effective (at least offensively) at the two spot. I think teams get too hung up worrying about how big their backcourt is, the few times I can remember when teams said **** it and played the small two, it generally seemed to work out pretty well in the W/L column.

 

[Stoney]

I think the best PGs have become hybrids, in the mold of Iverson and Nash. How many "true" PGs are there? Kidd? Paul?

I don't consider Nash to be a hybrid, he's a true point guard who just happens to also be a tremendous shooter. Nobody could dispute that Nash clearly plays a "pass first" style, nor that his primary focus is on finding and creating shots for his teammates.

And I don't think I'd call Iverson a hybrid either, at least in terms of his style of play. He's more like a shooting guard who sometimes gets called a point because he's barely 6'0" tall. The best years of Iverson's career all came when he was starting at the 2 spot, with Snow at the point.

 

[BrianGriffin]

I think the best PGs have become hybrids, in the mold of Iverson and Nash. How many "true" PGs are there? Kidd? Paul?

The league, to some extent, is being taken over by guys like Rose, Williams and Rondo, and probably soon by guys like Wall and Holiday. They're PGs+.

I don't think of Nash as a hybrid at all. A true point guard can also score, so long as he doesn't see himself as more than one of the five scoring options on the floor, with a good feel for where exactly his scoring game puts him in the pecking order.

Nash is the ultimate distributor. He just knows that if he's the guy open, well, time to distribute it ... to himself.

On the other hand, Iverson and Westbrook types (as somebody noted earlier, Barea belongs in this category) are looking to score at all times and when teams adjust to stop them, then they'll dish for an assist. Everything has to revolve around the threat they present to score.

Kiidd's not like that. Miami doesn't have a decent point guard, to me. Rose, I think, sits in the middle. One could say he's shot-first, but one might also say he has a good feel for his team and realizes he's the best scoring option, so as the guy with the ball in his hand, he takes that responsibility. I get the sense that if the flow of the game goes away from him scoring, he'd be willing to give up shots for the team. Westbrook is just the opposite. With him, OKC fans have to sometimes bang their head against the wall screaming "THROW IT TO DURANT!"

 

[BTExpress]

It's a fascinating study how this discussion shuts down when the Heat wins. Not a single post all game.

Happened throughout the Celtics series, too.

 

[floridanewbie31]

Especially when a certain hated figure on this board kills the beloved Bulls down the stretch.

 

[Petrie]

OK, which one of you is LeBatard?

 

[Dick Whitman]

Last night was like watching Butler play in the NCAA championship game against UConn. NBA teams put up some clunkers from time to time, but it was a pretty bad time for the Bulls to put one up. The problem is that there are times when, other than Derrick Rose, absolutely nobody on that team can create offense. Look at the box score. Boozer: 7 points. Deng: 1-for-7 from 3-point territory. Korver: 1-for-5 from 3-point territory.

People who know the NBA as a superstar league would scoff at this, but Korver struggling absolutely killed them. If he can't hit from back there, then he's useless as a player. And I think he missed four open 3's in the second half last night. A lot of them were at key times, with a chance to either put the Bulls in the lead or tighten things up considerably down the stretch. As a team, Chicago was 3-for-20 from downtown, and that just killed them. On top of that, they were 16-for-26 from the free throw line, and 34.1 percent overall shooting. Just miserable.

While the Bulls' role players like Korver struggled, however, Miami actually had someone come up big. It probably remains to be seem whether Udonis Haslem has it in him to contribute like that throughout the series, but he was unbelievable in his 23 minutes last night. This is a guy who had played, I think, seven minutes in the playoffs and missed 69 games this season. What a boost for them. When they get someone, anyone, to step up as a fourth offensive option, they are damned near unbeatable.

Although the two games were double-digit wins, I think this is shaping up as a very interesting series. I'm really curious to see where it goes. But if Chicago doesn't get some offense from someone other than Derrick Rose, then it could be over really fast.

 

[JakeandElwood]

Yeah, it should be a really good series. It's interesting because both teams have had a game where their top player (LeBron in Game 1, Rose in Game 2) was absolutely horrible and lost. There hasn't a game where both teams are clicking well yet.

The good news for the Bulls is they can't shoot any worse than they did last night and they still had the game tied at 73 with plenty of chances to take the lead that they wasted.