Linball

[PCLoadLetter]

What you think about this probably depends on how you feel about correlation/causation but
Nate Silver tweeted that the the MSG stock has gone up $600 million in market capitalization since Lin's first start.

I don't follow the market and my understanding of finance is child like, but it seems silly to pretend Lin's presence didn't contribute to SOME of the renewed enthusiasm in the Knicks, which would in turn, make a difference with the financial sector, no?

It's what makes this bungling that much funnier. They could have locked him up months ago for less. But the bravado... "Jeremy Lin needs to learn a thing or two." Etc, etc.

I mean, signing Kurt Thomas? ;D. Felton? ;D

When I think of who might be involved in this..... There's only one person who could bungle something in this particular way with this kind of panache.

C'mon, who here would be surprised to read he has a hand in this?

They could not have locked him up months ago. Even after the Early Bird Rights decision, he was looking for the best deal, as is his right. He signed a deal meant to punish the Knicks if they match.

Why would he want to punish them? Because instead of working toward an extension, their attitude with him was clearly "wait-and-see."

Dolan's incompetent, and this was botched. Fans who bought season tickets expecting more Linsanity should see this as a bait-and-switch.

I think what he's saying, Lugs, is that the deal was designed to punish the Knicks, making them less likely to match. Lin isn't trying to punish the Knicks.

The deal is absurdly back-heavy -- $5M the first year, $5.2M the second year, $14.8M the third. The Rockets can use the average of those salaries against the cap for three years, but the Knicks would have to use the actual figures, giving them a massive luxury tax bill in year three. I still think they're foolish to let him go, but that's why they're doing it.

 

[Stitch]

It's interesting that I get YES, but not MSG. No Knicks, but I get the Sixers and Nets games.

 

[Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L)]

Good enough to make the playoffs - maybe? Keep talking yourself into justifying watching that team.

 

[Bodie_Broadus]

So glad they declined to match the offer. Lin never wanted to stay here.

Why overpay for him? He isn't worth what the Rockets gave him.

 

[sgreenwell]

So glad they declined to match the offer. Lin never wanted to stay here.

Why overpay for him? He isn't worth what the Rockets gave him.

I'd make the case that overpaying him is probably balanced by two factors:

1) He's one of the few guys on that roster with any upside. Unless something radical happened, like giving the whole team the "Kobe in Germany" knee treatment or hiring Phil Jackson, I can't see Stoudamire or Carmelo or Chandler or the rest of that roster getting better, since it's mostly guys at or near their peak.

2) He probably opens a whole new market of jersey sales for the team that acquires him. The Knicks are the Knicks in New York, and probably have no problems selling out every game. But outside of Carmelo, I imagine they probably don't have a huge footprint for jersey sales overseas. Kind of like Ichiro in Seattle or Yao Ming in Houston, they've both shown that having a guy with Asian heritage on your team can unlock a lot more revenue, probably more than enough to offset the luxury tax you have to pay.

 

[Webster]

What you think about this probably depends on how you feel about correlation/causation but
Nate Silver tweeted that the the MSG stock has gone up $600 million in market capitalization since Lin's first start.

I don't follow the market and my understanding of finance is child like, but it seems silly to pretend Lin's presence didn't contribute to SOME of the renewed enthusiasm in the Knicks, which would in turn, make a difference with the financial sector, no?

It's what makes this bungling that much funnier. They could have locked him up months ago for less. But the bravado... "Jeremy Lin needs to learn a thing or two." Etc, etc.

I mean, signing Kurt Thomas? ;D. Felton? ;D

When I think of who might be involved in this..... There's only one person who could bungle something in this particular way with this kind of panache.

C'mon, who here would be surprised to read he has a hand in this?

They could not have locked him up months ago. Even after the Early Bird Rights decision, he was looking for the best deal, as is his right. He signed a deal meant to punish the Knicks if they match.

Why would he want to punish them? Because instead of working toward an extension, their attitude with him was clearly "wait-and-see."

Dolan's incompetent, and this was botched. Fans who bought season tickets expecting more Linsanity should see this as a bait-and-switch.

They could not sign him to an extension during the season for any sort of real money as the league took the position that he didn't have Early Bird Rights.

Once free agency began, he made it clear that he wanted to see how much he could get and the deal that he signed exploited a loophole which made it far less attractive for the Knicks than the Rockets. Good on him, but at some point you have to decide if he is worth that massive salary in the third year.

 

[Football_Bat]

What you think about this probably depends on how you feel about correlation/causation but
Nate Silver tweeted that the the MSG stock has gone up $600 million in market capitalization since Lin's first start.

I don't follow the market and my understanding of finance is child like, but it seems silly to pretend Lin's presence didn't contribute to SOME of the renewed enthusiasm in the Knicks, which would in turn, make a difference with the financial sector, no?

It's what makes this bungling that much funnier. They could have locked him up months ago for less. But the bravado... "Jeremy Lin needs to learn a thing or two." Etc, etc.

I mean, signing Kurt Thomas? ;D. Felton? ;D

When I think of who might be involved in this..... There's only one person who could bungle something in this particular way with this kind of panache.

C'mon, who here would be surprised to read he has a hand in this?

They could not have locked him up months ago. Even after the Early Bird Rights decision, he was looking for the best deal, as is his right. He signed a deal meant to punish the Knicks if they match.

Why would he want to punish them? Because instead of working toward an extension, their attitude with him was clearly "wait-and-see."

Dolan's incompetent, and this was botched. Fans who bought season tickets expecting more Linsanity should see this as a bait-and-switch.

They could not sign him to an extension during the season for any sort of real money as the league took the position that he didn't have Early Bird Rights.

Once free agency began, he made it clear that he wanted to see how much he could get and the deal that he signed exploited a loophole which made it far less attractive for the Knicks than the Rockets. Good on him, but at some point you have to decide if he is worth that massive salary in the third year.

The Rockets played a dirty trick on the Knicks. Their heavily-backloaded offer sheet that Lin signed would've put the Knicks exorbitantly over the cap in the third year if they'd chosen to match, and with the new rules, that's an unswallowable pill. So the Knicks have no choice but to let Lin walk.

 

[Boom_70]

What you think about this probably depends on how you feel about correlation/causation but
Nate Silver tweeted that the the MSG stock has gone up $600 million in market capitalization since Lin's first start.

I don't follow the market and my understanding of finance is child like, but it seems silly to pretend Lin's presence didn't contribute to SOME of the renewed enthusiasm in the Knicks, which would in turn, make a difference with the financial sector, no?

It's what makes this bungling that much funnier. They could have locked him up months ago for less. But the bravado... "Jeremy Lin needs to learn a thing or two." Etc, etc.

I mean, signing Kurt Thomas? ;D. Felton? ;D

When I think of who might be involved in this..... There's only one person who could bungle something in this particular way with this kind of panache.

C'mon, who here would be surprised to read he has a hand in this?

They could not have locked him up months ago. Even after the Early Bird Rights decision, he was looking for the best deal, as is his right. He signed a deal meant to punish the Knicks if they match.

Why would he want to punish them? Because instead of working toward an extension, their attitude with him was clearly "wait-and-see."

Dolan's incompetent, and this was botched. Fans who bought season tickets expecting more Linsanity should see this as a bait-and-switch.

They could not sign him to an extension during the season for any sort of real money as the league took the position that he didn't have Early Bird Rights.

Once free agency began, he made it clear that he wanted to see how much he could get and the deal that he signed exploited a loophole which made it far less attractive for the Knicks than the Rockets. Good on him, but at some point you have to decide if he is worth that massive salary in the third year.

The Rockets played a dirty trick on the Knicks. Their heavily-backloaded offer sheet that Lin signed would've put the Knicks exorbitantly over the cap in the third year if they'd chosen to match, and with the new rules, that's an unswallowable pill. So the Knicks have no choice but to let Lin walk.

How is that a dirty trick? It's good business unless you think that they paid too much. I guess time will tell.

 

[da man]

What you think about this probably depends on how you feel about correlation/causation but
Nate Silver tweeted that the the MSG stock has gone up $600 million in market capitalization since Lin's first start.

I don't follow the market and my understanding of finance is child like, but it seems silly to pretend Lin's presence didn't contribute to SOME of the renewed enthusiasm in the Knicks, which would in turn, make a difference with the financial sector, no?

It's what makes this bungling that much funnier. They could have locked him up months ago for less. But the bravado... "Jeremy Lin needs to learn a thing or two." Etc, etc.

I mean, signing Kurt Thomas? ;D. Felton? ;D

When I think of who might be involved in this..... There's only one person who could bungle something in this particular way with this kind of panache.

C'mon, who here would be surprised to read he has a hand in this?

They could not have locked him up months ago. Even after the Early Bird Rights decision, he was looking for the best deal, as is his right. He signed a deal meant to punish the Knicks if they match.

Why would he want to punish them? Because instead of working toward an extension, their attitude with him was clearly "wait-and-see."

Dolan's incompetent, and this was botched. Fans who bought season tickets expecting more Linsanity should see this as a bait-and-switch.

They could not sign him to an extension during the season for any sort of real money as the league took the position that he didn't have Early Bird Rights.

Once free agency began, he made it clear that he wanted to see how much he could get and the deal that he signed exploited a loophole which made it far less attractive for the Knicks than the Rockets. Good on him, but at some point you have to decide if he is worth that massive salary in the third year.

The Rockets played a dirty trick on the Knicks. Their heavily-backloaded offer sheet that Lin signed would've put the Knicks exorbitantly over the cap in the third year if they'd chosen to match, and with the new rules, that's an unswallowable pill. So the Knicks have no choice but to let Lin walk.

That kind of thing has been going on for decades. During my very brief sojourn as an NBA beat writer back in the '80s Detroit signed BWS* Jon Koncak to a ridiculously huge offer sheet knowing the Hawks, who had no backup plan if they lost him, would have to match it, putting them in a bind financially and in terms of the salary cap.

Koncak, who the previous season averaged 5 ppg and 6 rpg, wound up making more in 1989-90 than Magic, Bird and Jordan.

Not a dirty trick. Just part of the game.







*Big White Stiff

 

[Lugnuts]

Ok I don't understand the Bird loophole, but couldn't the Knicks tell him during the season, "We will make you happy"?

Instead I distinctly remember reading a quote something along the lines of, "Jeremy Lin needs to learn a few things." It was all bravado.

Guys, I still say it's about managing the situation, and the Knicks did it with all the finesse of a complete brick.

 

[Boom_70]

Ok I don't understand the Bird loophole, but couldn't the Knicks tell him during the season, "We will make you happy"?

Instead I distinctly remember reading a quote something along the lines of, "Jeremy Lin needs to learn a few things." It was all bravado.

Guys, I still say it's about managing the situation, and the Knicks did it with all the finesse of a complete brick.

Agreed, The Knicks did not near give Lin the respect that he deserved given that the team was dead in the water until he turned the ship around. When Carmelo came back and Mike Woodson announced that ball was going through him, I have no doubt that Lin deep down figured that his days were numbered with The Knicks.

 

[bigpern23]

I understand that the Knicks can't take that kind of luxury tax hit (that third year would cost them $30m), but as Sgreenwell said, Lin was really the only player on their roster with upside.

As a fan, he was incredibly fun to watch and after seeing the Knicks give out so many bad contracts to aging scrubs all these years, at least if they overpaid Lin, it would have been for a guy with some real potential.

I like Lin and I don't want to have to root for him to flop. But now, every success he has will be a kick in the groin for all Knicks fans because they handled the situation so poorly. Good for Lin for taking the money. He made the right move. The Knicks? Well, they acted like the Knicks.

 

[Boom_70]

I do need to thank Jeremy Lin for a reduction in my cable bill. Do to location I'm stuck with Cablevision as my provider. For past year I've been on a deal called "triple play" which charges you $29 x 3 for Cable / Phone / Internet. My year is almost up which means an additional $60 - $70 a month. I called Cablevision and told them that I would be canceling my service because I hated that The Dolans screwed up the Jeremy Lin deal. I was put on hold and they came back in a few minutes to tell me that I could keep my $29 deal for another year.

 

[Pancamo]

The GM who replaces Morey in Houston will trade the Lin contract in year three for picks to a team looking to clear cap space.

 

[Evil Bastard (aka Chris_L)]

Am I the only one who keeps waiting for someone to ask George Karl what was harder - beating cancer or putting up with Carmelo Anthony?

 

[Brooklyn Bridge]

I like Jeremy Lin, but with or without him I don't think the Knicks are better than a 7 seed in the playoffs and a likely first round loser. At least with Lin, you had a young guy with upside. Now we have an aging roster and can watch Carmelo Anthony try to score 50 points a night all by himself. Knicks will be able to beat the dregs, won't be able to compete with Miami and will flop out of the playoffs.

 

[qtlaw]

I never understood the adulation for Carmelo. Maybe it was his smooth name. Yes he was a scoring machine, but I always looked for how he made others better, rebounding, passing, and never saw it. The one year the Nuggets went to the Western Conf. finals, I never once thought it was because of Carmelo. Knicks are destined for mediocrity, forever trying to stay ahead of the Bucks.

At least with Lin, they had potential. We've already seen what Carmelo brings, he's simply a larger Starbury. That backloaded contract was a brilliant move by Morey/Rockets. No way the Knicks stomach a potential $40M cap hit.

 

[YankeeFan]

But, the Knocks could have been proactive, and signed Lin. They didn't need to wait until he had an offer from the Rockets.

Once they decided to let Houston set the market, they were at their mercy as far as how the contract was structured.

And, let me tell you, even with no state income tax, nobody who isn't from Texas would rather live/play in Houston than in New York.

Lin's marketing opportunities are much greater in New York as well.

The Knicks didn't make him feel wanted. They didn't make resigning him a priority, and now they've lost him.

People keep saying he's not great, but they were much better with him.

Their current roster is old, unlikeable, and selfish. They will be terrible to watch.

 

[LongTimeListener]

There seems to be consensus that the Knicks are being smart here. But they are still Jimmy Dolan's playtoy, right? So odds are this turns out stupid. I also think the cap/tax is a smokescreen that allows the Knicks to avoid the real explanation they aren't signing him: Carmelo. (So nice of him to call the Rockets' offer "ridiculous" the other day. You can tell he thinks a lot of Lin.)

 

[PCLoadLetter]

Lin's marketing opportunities are much greater in New York as well.

For the vast majority of players, that would be true.

In Lin's case, I'm not sure it is. The Chinese connection with the Rockets because of Yao Ming might mean Lin's better off in Houston.