Klinsmann talking with U.S. Soccer

[Pastor]

Brazil, Argentina, Italy, England, Spain, France. Six places off the top of my head that have a starting lineup superior to ours. They are the standard, they are the level we're trying to reach. they also happen to be the nations whose depth is clearly superior.

I might remove Spain from that list and insert Germany. The obvious factor in this is that you are talking about nations that were winning World Cups decade after decade. These are nations with a much more storied history.

In time, maybe the US reaches that level. But I don't believe that the drop-off is so great that they can never win.

As for Crouch, I'd say a healthy Owen, Rooney and Crouch are one hell of a threesome at forward. Eriksson took a risk bringing along injured guys, but when healthy, that's forward depth most countries would envy.

Yes, when healthy... I just don't see Peter Crouch as a 90' player. I'm also not that high on his talents. As such, I think the US has equal or better talent to him in McBride. It is just that, after McBride, much of the offensive force was far less proven.

Unfortunately for US soccer, plenty of other nations can boast athletes on their soccer teams who are every bit as good as ours. We just happen to produce more of them, but every soccer game roster has to be even anyway. We have some speedy guys who are small, and big guys who are slow. Regardless, there are those who would say athletics matters little when tactics are not so hot.

Klinsmann is not a tactics guy. He would help us in some ways, but the hire he makes as top assistant would be key.

Well stated. It is a concern of mine. I just see Klinsmann as a guy that will look to push the ball forward. He's willing to take risks. That is necessary for the US to win.

I apologize for blowing up.
I just haven't noticed anything major developing with U.S. men's soccer recently.

HB, I think the US' position in regards to Mexico should tell you all you need to know about the development of the US.

Mexico received a top seed in the last World Cup. At the same time, can you name the last time they defeated the US outside the Azteca? (I think Mexico has 1-loss in their entire history in the Azteca. So, this isn't so terrible.)

There used to be a time where Mexico flat out dominated this region. That is no longer the case. Now, it is a question of when will the US be so superior that it will defeat Mexico in the Azteca. There were rumblings about this occurring during the last round of qualifying. SI wrote up an article about how the US might finally break through this hurdle.

It didn't happen, but don't think for a minute that it wasn't a possibility.

The players and coaches have desire, I don't doubt that.
I will watch and see if they improve their international standing in coming years.
Klinnsman and his crew were fun to watch this summer.

I would like to think that Klinsmann will bring that type of style to the US.

I don't argue with anything you're saying. I was among the first on this board to raise these very questions, But with Bruce out, Web, what are the better options?
That's a serious question, not rhetorical.

And this is why I think Klinsmann was the top choice. There just isn't another option.

 

[Webster]

Twoback, I don't know. Coaching this team is much harder than it was 4-8 years ago. At least 1/2 of the roster is in Europe, meaning that it is tough to get our full squad together when they are all on the same fitness schedule. I doubt that we'll ever have more than 3 guys from the same club team make a full strength roster. Do we go the respected international coach route? The successful MLS coach route? I am not sure. No one blows me away in MLS -- I really like Bob Bradley, but, fairly or not, he's seen as too much or an Arena clone. Sigi? Maybe. Novak? Eh.

My point is that, if Klinsmann wouldn't even move to Germany pre-WC, what makes you think that he's going to watch Michael Bradley in Holland or Benny Feilhaber in Germany?

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

Pastor: I wouldn't argue that McBride is on par with Crouch, nor would I argue that Crouch is not a 90 minute player. Was just noting that with a guy like that coming off the bench like he should have with the others healthy, England has excellent forward depth.

Webster: Count me among the Bradley supporters. The only issue is that at this point, it seems like Kinsmann - and not an Arena guy - is the way they want to go. Guess it doesn't matter that in many ways, Bradley and Arena are quite different. Bradley should be the frontrunner for 2014 if he's still coaching.

As for Klinsy, I have no doubt he would scout wherever, whenever he needs to for the US. He spent a lot of timne in germany doing just that, even if he never established permanent residence there.

Speaking of Bradley: anyone see the Chivas USA-Houston game? Would be interested to know any thoughts anyone has.

 

[GB-Hack]

I too don't think scouting players will be an issue. Germany had a problem because he wouldn't live there, not that he didn't scout there.

You certainly have a point that Germany may have played above themselves in the WC, but I think another part of it was that Klinsmann stuck to his guns in the players he selected for the team. That in turn gave them confidence that one bad game wouldn't get them pulled, allowing them to play freely instead of being tense, as a lot of international teams seem to be.

Giving the U.S. players confidence to play with discipline but without fearing for their place in the team if the screw up should, I think, give them a boost. It will allow them to be more free to try and push the envelope in the attacking third of the field. Klinsmann would encourage the midfield to join the attack more frequently instead of having to maintain their position in front of the defense.

 

[TrooperBari]

Webster: Count me among the Bradley supporters. The only issue is that at this point, it seems like Kinsmann - and not an Arena guy - is the way they want to go. Guess it doesn't matter that in many ways, Bradley and Arena are quite different. Bradley should be the frontrunner for 2014 if he's still coaching.

As for Klinsy, I have no doubt he would scout wherever, whenever he needs to for the US. He spent a lot of timne in germany doing just that, even if he never established permanent residence there.

Speaking of Bradley: anyone see the Chivas USA-Houston game? Would be interested to know any thoughts anyone has.

Bradley = puckerpuckerpucker. Started the second leg with five defenders ... very un-Chivas-like. The Palencia red card limited his options, sure, but given the way the Gringo Goats attacked after the Davis PK, I'm a little mystified why they didn't just try to kill it off from the beginning.

Lots of good talent at HDC. I wonder how long Paco and Suarez want to keep at it, but guys like Mendoza, Klejstan, Bornstein, Guzan, etc. could drive that team to great things.

BB has his differenes with Arena, but he didn't fall that far from the coaching tree. (Of course, Klinsmann spent a good bit of time absorbing Arena's knowledge while he was in Cali.) Bradley was the hot, young coaching talent until his stay in NY inevitably went south. His work with CUSA is rehabilitating his image to an extent, but he's yet to win anything since his days in Chicago.

 

[KP]

What about Steve Nicol? Certainly not an attacking mind, but seems to get the most out of his players, has played on the big stage before, done a solid job with NE. Just throwing his name out there and see what someone may think.

 

[Twoback]

The U.S. just flat bets out-muscled by the Europeans and out-finessed by most any team they face.
I'm not impressed with U.S. men's soccer and frankly, I didn't understand why year after year they kept keeping dull-ass Bruce Arena around as coach.
The U.S. men are rail-thin when they line up against other soccer teams around the world.

I stand by what I said (read the above drivel).
If the U.S. were to have played England in the recent Cup, the U.S. would have been beaten.
Just like they were in all their matches there but the one tie.
**** a kiddie pool. I'll post any goddam thing I want to post.
Pompous ****s like yourself can take a swim if you want, but **** you and the horse you rode in on if you think I'm gonna stop posting when I damn well please.
The U.S. sucks in men's soccer, compared to the heavyweights of the world.
Accept it.
Get better, for sure.
But accept it.

If the U.S. were to have played, say, Italy, the team that would go on to win the World Cup, what would have been the result?
I'm guessing Italy would have won about 4-1, based on Hed Bust's assertions.
Is that what happened?

 

[Twoback]

Twoback, I don't know. Coaching this team is much harder than it was 4-8 years ago. At least 1/2 of the roster is in Europe, meaning that it is tough to get our full squad together when they are all on the same fitness schedule. I doubt that we'll ever have more than 3 guys from the same club team make a full strength roster. Do we go the respected international coach route? The successful MLS coach route? I am not sure. No one blows me away in MLS -- I really like Bob Bradley, but, fairly or not, he's seen as too much or an Arena clone. Sigi? Maybe. Novak? Eh.

My point is that, if Klinsmann wouldn't even move to Germany pre-WC, what makes you think that he's going to watch Michael Bradley in Holland or Benny Feilhaber in Germany?

If that's your concern, I don't see a problem. He was commuting regularly to Germany and staying there to coach the team. Now he lives, what, 30 minutes on a good traffic day from the Home Depot Center?
He'll look at trips to Germany to see Bradley, Dolo and Feilhaber as free trips back home. A great deal, no? Now, getting him to England to see Spector, Gibbs, DeMerit, Convey ...

 

[Hed bust]

The U.S. just flat bets out-muscled by the Europeans .... accept it.

If the U.S. were to have played, say, Italy, the team that would go on to win the World Cup, what would have been the result?
I'm guessing Italy would have won about 4-1, based on Hed Bust's assertions.
Is that what happened?

That tie game between U.S. and Italy was the highwater mark for the Americans at the Cup, and a sensational effort with everything left on the field. It was a unique Saturday, with the game taking place in what was the most Americanized part of this country of Germany.
Sort of a home game for the Americans, if you will. And they answered the call with a great effort, just couldn't score except for the one own-goal-esque marker.
Every team has its "best game" of the tourney. That was the best one for the U.S.
Italy's title was hard-earned after they'd been in so many close matches and also had to overcome the "rascist" labeling.
That title game with France was like the one with the U.S. - everyone on both teams was exhausted afterward.
I still think Britain would have beaten the U.S.

 

[sporting_guista]

I'm so-so on Klinsmann, but if he can get the US to open up and attack, the way he did Germany, then bring him in ASAP and get to work. The US is playing in Copa America, and it should do everything to make at minimum, the Final 4 there. From there, stop having friendlies with Jamaica, Malta and the Maldives. Bulk up the "friendly" schedule with Euros. Play Portugal, Spain, France, the former Soviet states; anyone who plays soccer regularly, y'know, in the winter and spring when most leagues are in action--Don't even get me started on MLS.
Here's a freebie for Sunil: Organize a summer tournament here in the US - no more than four teams. US, England, Germany Brazil. Weeklong affair. England-Germany in the opener, Brazil-US in the nightcap. Play Game 1 in NY, Game 2 in Foxboro. Championship game in Miami, third-place game in DC. Keeps travel within reason, nice exposure for US. Eventually it grows to eight teams, gains some weight, and the US sharpens up against quality talent.

Just a thought....

 

[Pastor]

MLS is in schedule during the summer months. You can't play that many international games and expect to grow your league and have team continuity.

 

[Boomer7]

I apologize for blowing up.
I just haven't noticed anything major developing with U.S. men's soccer recently.

What exactly were you looking for? They didn't have a particularly impressive World Cup, but they were still one awful PK call (Pimpong's flop) and a goalpost (McBride's header) away from advancing from the Group of Death. They haven't played enough quality opposition, but they've signed on to compete in Copa America next year. They don't have enough quality attackers at the moment, but the likes of Dempsey, Adu and Altidore bring a dynamism that past generations of U.S. players have lacked.

I'm not sure it's fair to expect "major developments". It's a gradual process, and it's undeniably going in the right direction -- just look at the American presence in major European leagues now as opposed to what it was 10 years ago.

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

I'm so-so on Klinsmann, but if he can get the US to open up and attack, the way he did Germany, then bring him in ASAP and get to work. The US is playing in Copa America, and it should do everything to make at minimum, the Final 4 there. From there, stop having friendlies with Jamaica, Malta and the Maldives. Bulk up the "friendly" schedule with Euros. Play Portugal, Spain, France, the former Soviet states; anyone who plays soccer regularly, y'know, in the winter and spring when most leagues are in action--Don't even get me started on MLS.
Here's a freebie for Sunil: Organize a summer tournament here in the US - no more than four teams. US, England, Germany Brazil. Weeklong affair. England-Germany in the opener, Brazil-US in the nightcap. Play Game 1 in NY, Game 2 in Foxboro. Championship game in Miami, third-place game in DC. Keeps travel within reason, nice exposure for US. Eventually it grows to eight teams, gains some weight, and the US sharpens up against quality talent.

Just a thought....

I believe what you describe is a relaunching of the U.S. Cup. And I also believe that lineup is a tad ambitious.

http://www.ussoccer.com/teams/mens/nuc/index.jsp.html

As for MLS, there are too many stadium availability issues that for now prevent it from matching everyone else's schedule. Hopefully those issues will disappear as more stadiums are built.

 

[TrooperBari]

What about Steve Nicol? Certainly not an attacking mind, but seems to get the most out of his players, has played on the big stage before, done a solid job with NE. Just throwing his name out there and see what someone may think.

Like Carlos Quieroz, only cheaper and less intelligible.

 

[TrooperBari]

I'm so-so on Klinsmann, but if he can get the US to open up and attack, the way he did Germany, then bring him in ASAP and get to work. The US is playing in Copa America, and it should do everything to make at minimum, the Final 4 there. From there, stop having friendlies with Jamaica, Malta and the Maldives. Bulk up the "friendly" schedule with Euros. Play Portugal, Spain, France, the former Soviet states; anyone who plays soccer regularly, y'know, in the winter and spring when most leagues are in action--Don't even get me started on MLS.
Here's a freebie for Sunil: Organize a summer tournament here in the US - no more than four teams. US, England, Germany Brazil. Weeklong affair. England-Germany in the opener, Brazil-US in the nightcap. Play Game 1 in NY, Game 2 in Foxboro. Championship game in Miami, third-place game in DC. Keeps travel within reason, nice exposure for US. Eventually it grows to eight teams, gains some weight, and the US sharpens up against quality talent.

Just a thought....

Shocking as it may seem, countries aren't lining up to play the US. Euro teams have plenty of options right next door, which removes the need for trans-Atlantic travel.

They used to have that summer tournament you spoke of ... remember the US Cup? The last edition was sometime in the mid-90s with the US, Ireland, South Africa and the Mexican C team (a.k.a. the Tri-Pumas).

 

[sporting_guista]

I'm so-so on Klinsmann, but if he can get the US to open up and attack, the way he did Germany, then bring him in ASAP and get to work. The US is playing in Copa America, and it should do everything to make at minimum, the Final 4 there. From there, stop having friendlies with Jamaica, Malta and the Maldives. Bulk up the "friendly" schedule with Euros. Play Portugal, Spain, France, the former Soviet states; anyone who plays soccer regularly, y'know, in the winter and spring when most leagues are in action--Don't even get me started on MLS.
Here's a freebie for Sunil: Organize a summer tournament here in the US - no more than four teams. US, England, Germany Brazil. Weeklong affair. England-Germany in the opener, Brazil-US in the nightcap. Play Game 1 in NY, Game 2 in Foxboro. Championship game in Miami, third-place game in DC. Keeps travel within reason, nice exposure for US. Eventually it grows to eight teams, gains some weight, and the US sharpens up against quality talent.

Just a thought....

Shocking as it may seem, countries aren't lining up to play the US. Euro teams have plenty of options right next door, which removes the need for trans-Atlantic travel.

They used to have that summer tournament you spoke of ... remember the US Cup? The last edition was sometime in the mid-90s with the US, Ireland, South Africa and the Mexican C team (a.k.a. the Tri-Pumas).

I do remember the US Cup; covered it a couple of times in fact. It was well received in the Boston area, especially the one year when Ireland, Portugal and Italy were invited. I believe the US won it, somehow??
As to a previous post, I understand my lineup was ambitious and unlikely-just an example. Money talks; make it worth their while to travel 'cross the pond, or fly over there. Have an occasional training camp in Spain or France, no one here will complain, or notice, trust me.
My point is, if the US wants to be a world power, then act like one. Hire a real coach, play real opponents, succeed in real competitions.

 

[Pastor]

My point is, if the US wants to be a world power, then act like one. Hire a real coach, play real opponents, succeed in real competitions.

See that is fun to say, but I don't see how the US isn't doing that. Bruce Arena is/was a real coach with real players playing against real opponents.

Mexico didn't become a complete and utter walk-over. The US also plays friendlies against other nations all the time.

The US does need to play more often against the more established nations, but you can't do that by taking away from the MLS schedule.

 

[Twoback]

Look at a year of games for a team like England.
Lots of Maltas and Andorras.
A few Polands.
Before WCup, they even played Jamaica.
You won't see them lining up against France or Spain unless there's something on the line. The American notion that "we need to play the Established Soccer Nations" in order to become better is poppycock. It's a model that NO ONE ELSE IS FOLLOWING. What do we need? Better players. We're getting there.

 

[sporting_guista]

Look at a year of games for a team like England.
Lots of Maltas and Andorras.
A few Polands.
Before WCup, they even played Jamaica.
You won't see them lining up against France or Spain unless there's something on the line. The American notion that "we need to play the Established Soccer Nations" in order to become better is poppycock. It's a model that NO ONE ELSE IS FOLLOWING. What do we need? Better players. We're getting there.

You're forgetting one thing: England's roster--results notwithstanding--is filled to the brim with world-class players who can get by against Jamaica and Malta. Those guys play the best every week in their domestic leagues. You going to tell me Houston Dynamo-Real Salt Lake has the same cache' as any Premier League match, much less a Champions League match? C'mon, you're delusional if you think the US' standing is the same as other nations, and therefore they can follow the same model.

 

[Pastor]

You're forgetting one thing: England's roster--results notwithstanding--is filled to the brim with world-class players who can get by against Jamaica and Malta. Those guys play the best every week in their domestic leagues. You going to tell me Houston Dynamo-Real Salt Lake has the same cache' as any Premier League match, much less a Champions League match? C'mon, you're delusional if you think the US' standing is the same as other nations, and therefore they can follow the same model.

I believe that the proper response isn't to try and compare the local league fixtures with that across the pond.

Is Brian Ching preparing for the World Cup by scoring goals against RSL? Yes, but it isn't exactly like he's going against some defense made of paper.

MLS isn't the equivalent of the EPL, but it isn't so far behind that the competition doesn't matter. What matters is that the players continue to push forward and challenge themselves regardless of the competition.

Beasley was, at one point, considered the best player on the US roster. What is he doing now? He's not even an option for Reading. He's damn near dropped off the face of the earth.

Meanwhile a guy like Dempsey goes out and looks like a world beater in the W.C. but the perception is that he's a lesser player since he is a "lesser" league.