"Killing Kennedy"

[KYSportsWriter]

Anyone catch this on National Geographic? I'm just now getting to watch it.

 

[buckweaver]

"Based on a story by Bill O'Reilly"?

Pass.

 

[Gold]

I read O'Reilly's book because I was curious and have read a lot (at least 30 books, including the summary of the Warren Commission report) about the JFK assassination.

Very little of the book actually deals with the assassination. It is pretty standard, although he ackowledges there are other theories but doesn't comment on them.

 

[ColdCat]

booooooring, wake me up for 'Killing Garfield'

 

[Shoeless Joe]

I caught the first half, then went to bed. It was OK.

What I found more interesting earlier in the evening was a show based on the book Mortal Error, theorizing that the head shot actually came from the Secret Service follow car. The car lurched, causing a guy to accidentally squeeze off a round and hit the president. The author doesn't claim anyone was in on it; it was an accident. He does call attention to the SS knowing what happened, thus the quick escape from Dallas, questionable autopsy, etc.

The way everything is outlined in the story, it gives a whole lot of credence to the Oswald lone nut theory. Oswald actually only got off two shots, not three, which is doable in the time frame. One of the three spent shell casings was already in the rifle and discharged when Oswald loaded. He puts to rest the magic bullet theory, showing how Kennedy and Connally were actually positioned to allow one shot to do all the damage without zig zagging and changing course. Kennedy would have likely been dead from the hit, so the head shot just mad a bad day worse for the SS.

 

[TigerVols]

I caught the first half, then went to bed. It was OK.

What I found more interesting earlier in the evening was a show based on the book Mortal Error, theorizing that the head shot actually came from the Secret Service follow car. The car lurched, causing a guy to accidentally squeeze off a round and hit the president. The author doesn't claim anyone was in on it; it was an accident. He does call attention to the SS knowing what happened, thus the quick escape from Dallas, questionable autopsy, etc.

The way everything is outlined in the story, it gives a whole lot of credence to the Oswald lone nut theory. Oswald actually only got off two shots, not three, which is doable in the time frame. One of the three spent shell casings was already in the rifle and discharged when Oswald loaded. He puts to rest the magic bullet theory, showing how Kennedy and Connally were actually positioned to allow one shot to do all the damage without zig zagging and changing course. Kennedy would have likely been dead from the hit, so the head shot just mad a bad day worse for the SS.

Check's in the mail.

The show's called JFK: The Smoking Gun. It airs on ReelzChannel (DirecTV channel 238, etc. etc.).

I'm sorta involved with it, but I found it to be a pretty dang solid explanation of the day's events.

For more about it, go here:

https://www.facebook.com/ReelzChannel

Click on the small box at the top that says "Watch the trailer."

 

[heyabbott]

I read American Tabloid this summer, I know the real story

 

[britwrit]

Only commies and flag burners question the efficiency of rifle training by the United States Marines.

 

[Dick Whitman]

"Based on a story by Bill O'Reilly"?

Pass.

I read the O'Reilly book based upon a friend's recommendation of the Lincoln book.

My assessment: It's not bad. It's definitely not what you think.

It's essentially a Kennedy for Dummies book, written in a narrative fashion. O'Reilly had a co-author, so I wonder how much of it he actually wrote himself, and how much a ghost writer just carried out his vision.

Jill Abramson recently wrote a piece in which she torched basically every Kennedy book ever written. The only quibble she made with O'Reilly's book was with his simplistic prose.

 

[TigerVols]

Yeah, Bill O is to historical fiction as E.L. James is to erotica.

Meh.

 

[cranberry]

I read American Tabloid this summer, I know the real story

Pete Bondurant knows the truth, too.

 

[micropolitan guy]

What I found more interesting earlier in the evening was a show based on the book Mortal Error, theorizing that the head shot actually came from the Secret Service follow car. The car lurched, causing a guy to accidentally squeeze off a round and hit the president. The author doesn't claim anyone was in on it; it was an accident.

I admit I know next-to-nothing about ballistics. But can a .22 caliber bullet fired from a service revolver (assuming that's what the Secret Service used, pretty standard-issue equipment for law enforcement in that era, I think) wreak that much havoc on a person's head? From what I have always heard on TV cop shows, .22 bullets cause so much damage on head shots because they often don't exit the skull and instead rattle around and destroy the brain. Again, I willingly admit my ignorance on this topic.

And Oswald didn't need to fire 3 shots within 5.8 seconds, or whatever. The clock didn't start until the first shot had been fired. Getting two subsequent shots off in nearly six seconds is no big feat for an ex-Marine.

 

[NoOneLikesUs]

https://zolabooks.com/book/the-accidental-victim/overview

I saw a mention of this book the other day and the theory that Oswald was aiming to knock off Connally and accidentally shot JFK is interesting. I might have to pick this book up.

 

[TigerVols]

What I found more interesting earlier in the evening was a show based on the book Mortal Error, theorizing that the head shot actually came from the Secret Service follow car. The car lurched, causing a guy to accidentally squeeze off a round and hit the president. The author doesn't claim anyone was in on it; it was an accident.

I admit I know next-to-nothing about ballistics. But can a .22 caliber bullet fired from a service revolver (assuming that's what the Secret Service used, pretty standard-issue equipment for law enforcement in that era, I think) wreak that much havoc on a person's head? From what I have always heard on TV cop shows, .22 bullets cause so much damage on head shots because they often don't exit the skull and instead rattle around and destroy the brain. Again, I willingly admit my ignorance on this topic.

And Oswald didn't need to fire 3 shots within 5.8 seconds, or whatever. The clock didn't start until the first shot had been fired. Getting two subsequent shots off in nearly six seconds is no big feat for an ex-Marine.

The Secret Service agent allegedly fired an AR-15 which had only recently been given to Secret Service, and he was usually the driver and not the sniper in the car (he was asked to take over moments before the car left, because the usual sniper was too hung over).

As for getting 3 shots off in 6 seconds...in the early 70s, CBS did a re-enactment with the leading snipers and forensics experts of the day, and only one of them was able to pull off the feat, using the crappy Italian rifle Oswald used. And he only did it on his third attempt.

And it's that forensics expert who went on to do the research that lead to the writing of Mortal Error.

 

[Shoeless Joe]

What I found more interesting earlier in the evening was a show based on the book Mortal Error, theorizing that the head shot actually came from the Secret Service follow car. The car lurched, causing a guy to accidentally squeeze off a round and hit the president. The author doesn't claim anyone was in on it; it was an accident.

I admit I know next-to-nothing about ballistics. But can a .22 caliber bullet fired from a service revolver (assuming that's what the Secret Service used, pretty standard-issue equipment for law enforcement in that era, I think) wreak that much havoc on a person's head? From what I have always heard on TV cop shows, .22 bullets cause so much damage on head shots because they often don't exit the skull and instead rattle around and destroy the brain. Again, I willingly admit my ignorance on this topic.

And Oswald didn't need to fire 3 shots within 5.8 seconds, or whatever. The clock didn't start until the first shot had been fired. Getting two subsequent shots off in nearly six seconds is no big feat for an ex-Marine.

It wasn't a handgun. The guy had an early model AR15, still just .223 but obviously works well as an assault rifle.

*just beat me to it

 

[NoOneLikesUs]

What I found more interesting earlier in the evening was a show based on the book Mortal Error, theorizing that the head shot actually came from the Secret Service follow car. The car lurched, causing a guy to accidentally squeeze off a round and hit the president. The author doesn't claim anyone was in on it; it was an accident.

I admit I know next-to-nothing about ballistics. But can a .22 caliber bullet fired from a service revolver (assuming that's what the Secret Service used, pretty standard-issue equipment for law enforcement in that era, I think) wreak that much havoc on a person's head? From what I have always heard on TV cop shows, .22 bullets cause so much damage on head shots because they often don't exit the skull and instead rattle around and destroy the brain. Again, I willingly admit my ignorance on this topic.

And Oswald didn't need to fire 3 shots within 5.8 seconds, or whatever. The clock didn't start until the first shot had been fired. Getting two subsequent shots off in nearly six seconds is no big feat for an ex-Marine.

The Secret Service agent allegedly fired an AR-15 which had only recently been given to Secret Service, and he was usually the driver and not the sniper in the car (he was asked to take over moments before the car left, because the usual sniper was too hung over).

As for getting 3 shots off in 6 seconds...in the early 70s, CBS did a re-enactment with the leading snipers and forensics experts of the day, and only one of them was able to pull off the feat, using the crappy Italian rifle Oswald used. And he only did it on his third attempt.

And it's that forensics expert who went on to do the research that lead to the writing of Mortal Error.

I read a debunking of this in Vincent Bugliosi's book and he wrote something along the lines of Oswald only needing something like 8.5 seconds to fire two shots (you don't start the clock until after the first shot is fired). It was completely doable from that standpoint.

 

[old_tony]

The idea that the kill shot came from another car in the motorcade is just so ludicrous. An accidental shot because the car lurched? Sorry, but that would have caused the agent to shoot well into the air. We're supposed to believe that while Marine sniper couldn't hit his target and the job was done by an accident caused by a car lurch -- and no one lining both sides of the street noticed the assault rifle going off just feet way from them. Please.

 

[Joe Williams]

The idea that the kill shot came from another car in the motorcade is just so ludicrous. An accidental shot because the car lurched? Sorry, but that would have caused the agent to shoot well into the air. We're supposed to believe that while Marine sniper couldn't hit his target and the job was done by an accident caused by a car lurch -- and no one lining both sides of the street noticed the assault rifle going off just feet way from them. Please.

I agree with this. The coincidence of a sniper's work synching up with a crazy mishap, just so? Outlandish odds against that.

 

[buckweaver]

"You must have hit a bump or something."

 

[Dick Whitman]

"Skeptic" magazine, one of the consistently best reads every month, recently had a special on the assassination in which they pretty much debunked one theory after another.

Guys, here is what happened:

Lee Harvey Oswald shot John F. Kennedy from the Texas School Book Depository. He acted alone.