Grammar Hotline

[fishwrapper]

Re: Grammar Crisis

Don't laugh, this should be a running thread.

Before I stab myself, which is correct:

1) '....he was prepared for the challenges that lay ahead'

or

2) ...'the challenges that lie ahead.'

It's the first one, right?? Or neither??

Personal issue:
I think "that" should be stricken from professional prose.
It can be almost always eliminated from the sentence and moves the author back into the active voice:

From the NYT blog, lede item on their website right now:
On the death of John Murtha. The posting is by Kate Phillips, who is a fantastic writer and often holds down the NYT's Politics and Govt. blog:

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/02/08/congressman-murtha-dies/?hp

His aides released a statement saying that he died shortly after 1 p.m. today at Virginia Hospital Center in Arlington, a suburb of Washington, D.C. Mr. Murtha had been placed in intensive care last week after complications from gallbladder surgery, his staff said then.

It's superfluous and -- more times than not -- hurts the strength of the statement (not that it does here).
Rant over.

 

[RickStain]

Re: Grammar Crisis

I think we get overzealous removing "that." Sometimes, removing it hurts the rhythm of the sentence in the voice in our head.

 

[21]

Re: Grammar Crisis

Agree completely with Fishwrapper. Some years ago Dooley pointed (that) out and I never forgot it...and wondered why no one had ever told me before.

Although Rick makes a good point about rhythm; sometimes you have to go with the impact of the language over the rule of law.

 

[fishwrapper]

Re: Grammar Crisis

That voice in your head? There are professionals for that.

 

[Wonderlic]

Re: Grammar Crisis

Wonderlic, I have great respect for anyone who can remember all the rules. My problem is I think I know all the rules, until I realize (over and over) that I have completely made them up along the way.

I certainly can not remember all the rules, though I try. But I can keep a stylebook by my home and office computers.

 

[SF_Express]

"grey" is the same as "colours" except for greyhound.

I have to look up lay/lie pretty much every time I deal with it, 21, and often, I do what Wonderlic did...

Online style book: Great deal. Even if you have to $25 a year for it yourself...

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

It gets hairy when you get into laid/lain.

I don't think I've seen lain in a sentence since grammar school.

 

[21]

It gets hairy when you get into laid/lain.

As a rule I try to avoid 'hairy' and 'laid' in the same sentence. Or in the same day.

 

[spud]

Adding 'on the game' to the end of scoring totals has never made sense to me. "...56 points on the game." How is that right?

 

[21]

That is worse than 'on the day.'

Both are dopey.

 

[2muchcoffeeman]

"grey" is the same as "colours" except for greyhound.

How about Earl Grey tea?

 

[21]

"grey" is the same as "colours" except for greyhound.

How about Earl Grey tea?

Exactly. No one wants gray tea. Except AP, apparently.

 

[apeman33]

Adding 'on the game' to the end of scoring totals has never made sense to me. "...56 points on the game." How is that right?

on the game? That would be for the game, at least to me. And I hate myself for working my way into that phrase as much as I do.

I'm also guilty of using "on the day/evening." I don't know why I keep using phrases that bother me so much and I'm trying to get out of the habit of that.

 

[KJIM]

Hope this is the latest grammar thread. Working on editing a friend's doctoral paper.

Can/may. My thought - "can" is ability; "may" is permission.

How it came to me:
"Church leaders are often unaware of the vital role that they may play in times of tragic need."

I feel like it should be "can."

 

[jr/shotglass]

Tricky, because they essentially have been given permission to play that role. I still feel it should be "can."

 

[KJIM]

That's a big theme of the paper. It's the project I worked with while doing my AmeriCorps gig in Minot.

 

[Slacker]

I agree that "can" is the right word there, but "could" or "might" also work.

 

[typefitter]

I'm in the "can" camp, but "might" seems closer to the actual intention of the author. "May" seems wrong to me.

 

[da man]

Hope this is the latest grammar thread. Working on editing a friend's doctoral paper.

Can/may. My thought - "can" is ability; "may" is permission.

How it came to me:
"Church leaders are often unaware of the vital role that they may play in times of tragic need."

I feel like it should be "can."

First of all, "that" is unnecessary (as a large percentage of "thats" are).

Second, you are correct: "can" is ability, "may" is permission.

So in the case of your sentence, "can" is correct.

 

[KJIM]

Thank y'all.