Esquire's Why we cheat

[dooley_womack1]

Or if only the cigar penetrates.

 

[shockey]

See, to me, it's sympomatic of a larger issue. She either is capable of cheating, or she isn't. If she (or anyone) were to do it once, she could do it a million times. I could never do it, and I'm gathering you couldn't either, but once that trust is breached for the first time, I'd never trust that person again and I would, by default, assume they'll do it again.

you can 'assume' all you want that a one-time offender is therefore CAPABLE of doing it more and more and turn into a 'serial cheater.' but i's just not necessarily true. i'm sure many 'cheaters' did it just once; i know several folks in this category.

this is all hypothetical theory, right? well, let's say mrs. shockey had a one-time 'incident.' i wouldn't want to know about it 'cause i know my feelings would be irreparably hurt, my trust irreparably damaged. in such a one-time hypothetical, what good would it do me to ever learn about it? NONE...

now, any long-time affair, or serial cheating, damn straight i'd want to know so i could end the marriage. but in the one-time stumble scenario? no, thanks. better not to know.

 

[JackReacher]

Does anyone just, like, make out behind their spouse's back? Or grope? Seems like it's all the way or not at all in these situations.

This is the greatest post ever. "Honey, I didn't stick it in! I just licked her earlobes! It's OK!"

Just the tip!

 

[shockey]

Does anyone just, like, make out behind their spouse's back? Or grope? Seems like it's all the way or not at all in these situations.

oh, i'd imagine that happens plenty. that's 'cheating,' too, in my book. i have a buddy whose motto used to be, 'eatin' isn't cheatin'.'

guess his two ex-wives disagreed.

 

[Iron_chet]

Completely disagree. I guess it could come down to degrees of cheating but if you make the committment to the mother/father of your kids then that committment has to be kept. IMO it is about respecting the other parent and if you are not doing that then yes, you are a bad parent.

Look at the Arnold situation. I think he is a lousy father for putting his wife and kids through what he did even if the best facade was put up for 10 years.

 

[Shaggy]

I agree. Like it or not, your marriage is going to reflect your children's marriages in a lot of cases. And the way you treat your wife (if you're a guy) is going to set the bar as to what kind of standards your daughter expects out of her man. I'll be damned if I'm going to have my daughter marrying a cheat or an overall piece of **** because she thought it was normal. It's on me to show her how a wife should be treated.

My aunt and uncle have a terrible marriage and quite frankly should've gotten divorced 20 years ago. But they didn't because they didn't want to put their kids through that. It's to the point now where they don't talk to each other. One sleeps in the bedroom and one in the basement.

I'm not sure if they cheated or if it ever got physical, but it's to the point now where they just flat-out hate each other. When they pose for family photos, the kids are in the middle, between them.

And wouldn't you know it, both of their children, now college-aged, are trainwrecks when it comes to relationships. It's no wonder--look what they witnessed every day of their life.

I never believed in divorce until I saw that play out.

 

[shockey]

man, we're talking complete apples/oranges here. sure, in the case of arnold or the aunt/uncle with the awful marriage, of course the kids are apt to be affected, as is how they view dad, or mom, or both.

but it was stated that as soon as any degree of infidelity occurs your parental abiliities go out the window is waaaay to much of all-encompassing b.s. what, you think every infidelity is learned by the spouse, or children? don't be delusional. most do not end up exposed at all. i'm sure there are many men or women who have been 'cheaters' unbeknownst to ANYONE. and many of them are as 'good' or 'effective' as parents as anyone.

you know why? plenty of happy, solid marriages include one spouse who has 'cheated' at least once. i'm certainly not condoning it; just saying it's naive or pollyannish to think a good marriage cannot include/survive an infidelity.

 

[Gator]

After, and during, my parents' divorce in 1993 (I was 15) they disrespected each other plenty verbally, using me as a buffer. I don't think either of them are bad parents, nor do I think it will effect me and my future marriage.

 

[Buck]

But staying married doesn't guarantee either one in the marriage is a good parent.
A couple can stay faithful and stay married, and either or both of them can be bad parents.
And children who have never experienced divorce can grow up to have problems.
There is no perfect couple, are no perfect parents, are no perfect families and is no perfect childhood.

 

[Iron_chet]

@shockey, I think the original statement was that you can't be a great parent if you cheat, not that "your parenting ability went out the window".

I think the varying degrees of infidelities do lessen how good of a parent someone is. There is no sliding scale where getting a HJ in Vegas is equal to forgetting a birthday while pulling an Arnold makes you a dirtbag as a parent but any infidelity does make a person a worse parent imo.
qq
It is not just about learned infidelity but about learning respect and trust.

 

[Azrael]

Putting your marriage at risk isn't particularly good parenting.

 

[Gator]

Anyone can make generalizations, but until you've walked in the shoes of that particular person, it's lazy thinking. I'm sure there are plenty of parents out there who love their kids without necessarily (or no longer) loving their wife.

 

[JonnyD]

Love is a feeling. Anyone can have a feeling. Actions matter.

 

[Precious Roy]

Anyone can make generalizations, but until you've walked in the shoes of that particular person, it's lazy thinking. I'm sure there are plenty of parents out there who love their kids without necessarily (or no longer) loving their wife.

Yeah, they are called divorced parents. I just think if you are to the point you are ready, willing and able to cheat, you should just get out of the marriage. The anger, deceit and everything that would become the fallout of cheating (even if you never got caught, you still have to keep those balls in the air) would take away from the parenting you could be giving if you just ended the marriage and took care of the children.
I don't understand cheating, there is nothing interesting or fun about scuttling away from what I built for years just to spend a few hours doing that.
You need the rush? You need the thrills? Take up skydiving.
You having troubles in the marriage? Either talk it out or end it.
It's pretty cut and freaking dry.
And as for the would I want to know, absolutely. That way I can end it immediately. I don't want anything to do with someone who didn't respect me enough to just end it and then go get some. One time, 100 times, it makes no difference. Obviously, if they were willing to step out and disrespect me I didn't give my wife/girlfriend something they needed, so they can GTFO.
Luckily, I'm in a marriage that I don't ever see either of us wandering, because after 10 years it still feels like the first 10 days. However, if I ever get so mad I feel the desire step out I will end things first and I hope that she would do the same.
But maybe I'm naive and young, it's just me.
Louis CK made a great joke on Louie last night, he said that a marriage never ends when it gets bad, you suffer for years after that then only in that last year do you realize that it was that bad.

 

[shockey]

@shockey, I think the original statement was that you can't be a great parent if you cheat, not that "your parenting ability went out the window".

yes, yes, yes, that was the initial statement. again, that is a gross generalization i strongly disagree with; many men have cheated without getting 'caught' and are considered outstanding parents by any measure. i you have cheated and 'gotten away with it,' so to speak, how would that impact at all on your parenting skills or your child's love and respect for you?

again, i have never cheated and am certainly not advocating such behavior; just objecting to the notion that someone can cheat undetected yet have it impact at all on their parenting effectiveness.

now, why anyone would risk losing their child's love and admiration for a fling behind their mother's back escapes me.... but lets not delude ourselves into thinking that someone who 'cheats' ultimately is 'caught' and loses their entire family.

 

[JonnyD]

If you dangle your sleeping child out of a 10th-story window, you are a bad parent even if he doesn't get hurt and never knew it happened.

If you dangle your marriage and a good chunk of your place in the child's life out the methaphoric window, you are a bad parent even if he doesn't get hurt and never knows what happened.

 

[dooley_womack1]

JonnyD, that argument has a supply line that's long and hard to maintain. This is a topic that has a strong emotional component, so logic can get thrown out the window. Let's take a theoretical husband's day (p.s., not autobiographical):

7:30 a.m.: Makes the kids' breakfast before he goes to work and asks them what they have going on that day. Turns out oldest son has a soccer practice that ends at 6:30, and son asks if Dad can pick him up. Father says sure. Gives kids tight hugs and tells them he loves them before heading to work.
8:30 a.m.: Starts his job, works hard at it as usual; most years, he does well enough at it to get a substantial bonus that goes right into the kids' college fund.
3:30 p.m.: Youngest child calls work, having to talk to Daddy about the bully that pushed him down. Father focuses on the phone call for 10 minutes, and comforts the kid.
5 p.m.: Heads to the hotel to bang his mistress.
6 p.m.: Leaves the hotel to pick up his kid from practice.
6:30 p.m.: Gets to practice in time to pick up kid.
6:45 p.m.: Family has dinner, father talks to kids about their day, makes them laugh or otherwise feel good.
7:30 p.m.: Makes the kids start on their homework, and helps a couple of them with stuff they don't understand.
9 p.m.: Has the kids get ready to take their baths, showers, whatevs.
10 p.m.: Talks to the kids before they go to bed, wishes them pleasant dreams, tells them he loves them, yadda yadda.

OK, there's no doubt the guy has a lot to be desired as a husband; it'd be hard to imagine his dalliance not affecting the relationship with the wife.

Crappy husband, perhaps. But no empirical evidence that he's anything but a damn good father. The only way he couldn't be seen as such, other than entangling that argument with how he is as a husband, is if you throw in IF!!11!!1

 

[JonnyD]

Assuming it would ruin the marriage and force a divorce if found out, that's ****ty parenting.

That's like saying someone can be a good accountant if they are gambling someone else's money at the roulette wheel, as long as they haven't lost anything yet and the account is showing a solid return.

I get what you are saying, but getting away with something bad doesn't make it less bad, imo.

 

[dooley_womack1]

It's high-risk matrimony, not crappy parenting.

 

[JonnyD]

Your marriage and your parenting are intertwined.

You took half your time in your kids' life, at least, and gambled it.