Any other United Methodists here?

[Inky_Wretch]

If so, I'm wondering about your thoughts and feelings about the General Conference and the One Church Plan backfiring on the US bishops.

I'm really struggling with a denomination whose slogan is "Open hearts, open minds, open doors" going backward in terms of treating LGBTQ folks as equals.

(For those not following along ... United Methodists Fracture: LGBTQ Plan Rejected - The Atlantic)

 

[Oggiedoggie]

I was raised Methodist and my wife and son are members. I’ve been attending because our son plays as part of a string ensemble during Sunday service. Last night he said that, unless he gets a very good explanation from the pastor, he will probably quit the group and the church. Then, I will have little reason to attend.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

I was raised Methodist and my wife and son are members. I’ve been attending because our son plays as part of a string ensemble during Sunday service. Last night he said that, unless he gets a very good explanation from the pastor, he will probably quit the group and the church. Then, I will have little reason to attend.

I'm really struggling right now. Luckily, our pastors are too. They are aghast at the Traditional Plan passing. Honestly, at this point, I'm hoping for a schism.

 

[Oggiedoggie]

A complicating factor in any split is that the national Methodist Church almost always holds title to local church properties. Congregations can leave, but the property will remain with the conference.

The average age of Methodists is about 60. The church I attend (and give money to) is next to a university and attracting students is one of its stated goals. I see less of a chance of that happening after this vote.

 

[JRoyal]

A complicating factor in any split is that the national Methodist Church almost always holds title to local church properties. Congregations can leave, but the property will remain with the conference.

I think the larger threat would be a schism between the international Methodist church and the church organization in the U.S rather than individual churches leaving. I don't think it will happen, but I know a LOT of churches here in the U.S. are not happy.

 

[Jake_Taylor]

I grew up in the Methodist church, was even president of the youth group at one time. I don’t go to church much anymore, but was pretty surprised by the news because Methodists always seemed pretty chill about stuff like that and tried to avoid taking much of a stand on any of the big issues. Just be good to people seemed to be the message.

 

[Alma]

From the article:

Although the United Methodist Church is often described as a liberal, mainline Protestant denomination, in reality, the body is much more split, even in the United States. In a poll of its American members, the denomination found that 44 percent of respondents described their religious beliefs as traditional or conservative, 28 percent said they are moderate or centrist, and 20 percent identified as progressive or liberal. While the survey didn’t ask directly about LGBTQ issues, this is one of the clear theological dividing lines in the denomination. “There are thousands of us in churches … fiercely committed to a traditional definition of marriage: one man and one woman,” said Aislinn Deviney, a delegate from Rio, Texas. “I am a young, evangelical delegate. We young evangelicals want you to know that we are here. And we are striving to leave a legacy of scriptural holiness for generations to come.”

Worldwide, those numbers would likely shift even more toward a so-called traditional perspective.

 

[Alma]

I grew up in the Methodist church, was even president of the youth group at one time. I don’t go to church much anymore, but was pretty surprised by the news because Methodists always seemed pretty chill about stuff like that and tried to avoid taking much of a stand on any of the big issues. Just be good to people seemed to be the message.

If by "chill," you mean "worldly" then yes, it was that. In Christian terms, it's not particularly a compliment, either.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

I think the larger threat would be a schism between the international Methodist church and the church organization in the U.S rather than individual churches leaving. I don't think it will happen, but I know a LOT of churches here in the U.S. are not happy.

That's the schism I'm hoping happens.

It's so maddening to see this play out. Traditionalists are pounding the table about no gray area regarding homosexuality, but there are other issues where gray is the predominant color. We have Methodists who are in favor of the death penalty, others who are against it. Members of the military and pacifists. Folks who believe divorce is a sin and divorced (and remarried) pastors. Folks who think drinking alcohol is a sin and those who see no problem with drinking a couple of beers (including pastors).

 

[micropolitan guy]

Grew up Methodist, but haven't been to church in nearly 50 years, since I got confirmed and my parents said I did not have to attend if I did not want to. I didn't.

If I returned to church today, I'd be Presbyterian.

 

[Oggiedoggie]

There was a big split in the Methodist Church in 1845 over slavery. The church didn’t come back together until 1939 and the Church wasn’t officially fully integrated until 1968.

 

[Alma]

That's the schism I'm hoping happens.

It's so maddening to see this play out. Traditionalists are pounding the table about no gray area regarding homosexuality, but there are other issues where gray is the predominant color. We have Methodists who are in favor of the death penalty, others who are against it. Members of the military and pacifists. Folks who believe divorce is a sin and divorced (and remarried) pastors. Folks who think drinking alcohol is a sin and those who see no problem with drinking a couple of beers (including pastors).

Drinking alcohol is not a sin. Drunkenness is. I'm sorry there are people who'd believe that. It's not in the Bible, not drinking at all.

 

[DanOregon]

Am I confusing the Methodists with the Lutherans in each having conservative and liberal branches?

 

[Regan MacNeil]

My wife is. She's devastated by this news.

 

[DanOregon]

I wish I had such an attachment to the Catholic Church that such news would upset me. I've always viewed faith as the thing and the various organizations and hierarchies have as much to do with my faith as the stadium my favorite team plays in.

People that require a rigid religion to stay on the straight and narrow, really have a warped idea of Christianity.

 

[Moderator1]

Grew up Methodist, but haven't been to church in nearly 50 years, since I got confirmed and my parents said I did not have to attend if I did not want to. I didn't.

If I returned to church today, I'd be Presbyterian.

A Presbyterian minister I know told me this once: A Presbyterian is just a Methodist who makes more than $50,000 a year! I chuckled.

I was raised Jewish, am kind of non-religious now. During the end stage of my marriage, when we were semi trying to work it out, we went to a Methodist church her dad frequented. The pastor there was a great guy and we hit it off really well. Friends to this day (and he just moved to a church near my kids so I hope to see him again soon). Real eager to see what he thinks about this.

I can't support a church with that kind of stance. Again, I'm not real religious and probably shouldn't wade it but the question I always have is, "Didn't God make ALL of us?"

 

[Baron Scicluna]

A Presbyterian minister I know told me this once: A Presbyterian is just a Methodist who makes more than $50,000 a year! I chuckled.

I was raised Jewish, am kind of non-religious now. During the end stage of my marriage, when we were semi trying to work it out, we went to a Methodist church her dad frequented. The pastor there was a great guy and we hit it off really well. Friends to this day (and he just moved to a church near my kids so I hope to see him again soon). Real eager to see what he thinks about this.

I can't support a church with that kind of stance. Again, I'm not real religious and probably shouldn't wade it but the question I always have is, "Didn't God make ALL of us?"

This is one reason I like being a Reformed Jew. We accept LGBTQs based on the belief that God made everyone uniquely.

Plus, I like to point out that God calls homosexuality an abomination, but he doesn’t call slavery an abomination. A man owning another man is OK in God’s book, but heaven forbid if the two of them have consensual sex.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

I liked this column on it.

The Methodist mess in St. Louis

 

[Alma]

I wish I had such an attachment to the Catholic Church that such news would upset me. I've always viewed faith as the thing and the various organizations and hierarchies have as much to do with my faith as the stadium my favorite team plays in.

People that require a rigid religion to stay on the straight and narrow, really have a warped idea of Christianity.

I mean, yes, sure. “Religion” exists in part to create some accountability, some framework. And, in some cases, denominations exist because of schisms. Like the one about to happen here.

The LGBT/Christianity question is among the hardest to have. Where I often end up in the argument with others is: If there’s a Christian God - and I believe there is - then God is God, and far be it from me to declare, for absolute certain, the eternal fate of any practicing member of the LGBT community. But far be it from you to do the same in certain opposition. Let’s both pray and read more on it.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Adam Hamilton - the superstar pastor and thought leader - is considering leaving the UMC.

A Way Backwards: Winning the Battle, Losing the Church