Why does the Triple Crown seem underhyped?

[waterytart]

Obligatory post pointing out that MVP and Triple Crown didn't always coincide before. Williams has two of each. Four seasons.

 

[cyclingwriter]

Stat line for original Triple Crown "Winner" Paul Hines:

1878 NL Paul Hines PRO .358, 4 HR, 50 RBI

I guess HR's were hard to come by in that era of baseball.

Considering the baseballs in those days were so over-used that they sometimes resembled a busted grapefruit, I'd say that's correct.

Looks like HR's did not pick up until 1922:

1967 AL Carl Yastrzemski BOS .326, 44 HR, 121 RBI
1966 AL Frank Robinson BAL .316, 49 HR, 122 RBI
1956 AL Mickey Mantle NYY .353, 52 HR, 130 RBI
1947 AL Ted Williams BOS .343, 32 HR, 114 RBI
1942 AL Ted Williams BOS .356, 36 HR, 137 RBI
1937 NL Joe Medwick STL .374, 31 HR, 154 RBI
1934 AL Lou Gehrig NYY .363, 49 HR, 165 RBI
1933 AL Jimmie Foxx PHA .356, 48 HR, 163 RBI
1933 NL Chuck Klein PHI .368, 28 HR, 120 RBI
1925 NL Rogers Hornsby STL .403, 39 HR, 143 RBI
1922 NL Rogers Hornsby STL .401, 42 HR, 152 RBI
1909 AL Ty Cobb DET .377, 9 HR, 107 RBI
1901 AL Nap Lajoie PHA .426, 14 HR, 125 RBI
1887 AA Tip O'Neill STL .435, 14 HR, 123 RBI
1878 NL Paul Hines PRO .358, 4 HR, 50 RBI

Casty might be able to add more but my recollection was that Frank Robinson was upset that his Triple Crown was not a big deal and thought it had a bit to do with racism.

Steroids!!!! Sorry, had to do it.
One oddity there to share. Horsnby and Williams are the only men to win the triple crown twice, but that achievement is not mentioned on their HOF plaques.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

The 1960s American League was where batting average went to die -- until Rod Carew came on the scene. Yaz won the batting title in 1968 with a snappy .301.

 

[JosephC.Myers]

Interesting that the last one in the NL was in 1937. Anyone want to advance any theories as to why that is? Discuss.

 

[cranberry]

I wonder how much with Robinson had to do with the .316 average. It didn't seem like a monster season, I imagine, just a historical accident.

Robinson was the MVP in '66, too, so it wasn't like his season didn't draw attention. Yaz probably got more attention for his Triple Crown the following season (even though he only tied Killebrew in homers) because it was accomplished in the middle of tremendous four-way pennant race that went down to the final weekend.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Obligatory post pointing out that MVP and Triple Crown didn't always coincide before. Williams has two of each. Four seasons.

Did it happen with anyone besides Williams? In that case it was his feud with the press and not any devaluing of the feat back then.

I think dooley is right and that it's mostly about RBIs. We had an article on here awhile back foreseeing the end of RBIs completely as a statistic. I don't think that'll ever happen because it's much easier shorthand -- Miguel Cabrera had 140 RBIs and that means he had a pretty ****ing good year. Does it mean he was better than everybody who had 130 RBIs? No, but OPS and OPS+ and for God's sake WAR don't mean that either.

 

[Boom_70]

Interesting that the last one in the NL was in 1937. Anyone want to advance any theories as to why that is? Discuss.

In the 80's and 90's Tony Gwynn had a bit to do with it.

 

[JC]

Which stats would you use in determining what kind of a year a player had LTL?

 

[LongTimeListener]

Which stats would you use in determining what kind of a year a player had LTL?

All of the above.

RBIs tell something. Wins tell something. OPS tells something. OPS+ tells something. Even WAR tells something though not nearly what it has been purported to tell. And, I know I'm stupid here, but clutch stats tell something.

It doesn't mean any of those things will be repeated next year, but it does say a lot about what kind of year a guy had.

 

[da man]

The 1960s American League was where batting average went to die -- until Rod Carew came on the scene. Yaz won the batting title in 1968 with a snappy .301.

'68 was the year pitchers dominated everything. Denny McLain won 31 and Bob Gibson had that record 1.12 ERA. The next year they lowered the mound to bring hitting back into the game.

 

[JosephC.Myers]

Interesting that the last one in the NL was in 1937. Anyone want to advance any theories as to why that is? Discuss.

In the 80's and 90's Tony Gwynn had a bit to do with it.

Very true. Didn't think about it from that perspective. I was thinking more along the lines of the DH in the American League giving most of the hitters more chances to get at-bats and RBI opportunities.

 

[da man]

Stat line for original Triple Crown "Winner" Paul Hines:

1878 NL Paul Hines PRO .358, 4 HR, 50 RBI

I guess HR's were hard to come by in that era of baseball.

Considering the baseballs in those days were so over-used that they sometimes resembled a busted grapefruit, I'd say that's correct.

Looks like HR's did not pick up until 1922:

1967 AL Carl Yastrzemski BOS .326, 44 HR, 121 RBI
1966 AL Frank Robinson BAL .316, 49 HR, 122 RBI
1956 AL Mickey Mantle NYY .353, 52 HR, 130 RBI
1947 AL Ted Williams BOS .343, 32 HR, 114 RBI
1942 AL Ted Williams BOS .356, 36 HR, 137 RBI
1937 NL Joe Medwick STL .374, 31 HR, 154 RBI
1934 AL Lou Gehrig NYY .363, 49 HR, 165 RBI
1933 AL Jimmie Foxx PHA .356, 48 HR, 163 RBI
1933 NL Chuck Klein PHI .368, 28 HR, 120 RBI
1925 NL Rogers Hornsby STL .403, 39 HR, 143 RBI
1922 NL Rogers Hornsby STL .401, 42 HR, 152 RBI
1909 AL Ty Cobb DET .377, 9 HR, 107 RBI
1901 AL Nap Lajoie PHA .426, 14 HR, 125 RBI
1887 AA Tip O'Neill STL .435, 14 HR, 123 RBI
1878 NL Paul Hines PRO .358, 4 HR, 50 RBI

Duh. Ever hear of the dead-ball era and how it ended with the help of some guy named Ruth?

 

[da man]

Interesting that the last one in the NL was in 1937. Anyone want to advance any theories as to why that is? Discuss.

In the 80's and 90's Tony Gwynn had a bit to do with it.

Very true. Didn't think about it from that perspective. I was thinking more along the lines of the DH in the American League giving most of the hitters more chances to get at-bats and RBI opportunities.

DH didn't come in until 1974 -- after the last Triple Crown.

 

[JosephC.Myers]

Interesting that the last one in the NL was in 1937. Anyone want to advance any theories as to why that is? Discuss.

In the 80's and 90's Tony Gwynn had a bit to do with it.

Very true. Didn't think about it from that perspective. I was thinking more along the lines of the DH in the American League giving most of the hitters more chances to get at-bats and RBI opportunities.

DH didn't come in until 1974 -- after the last Triple Crown.

OK. I just thought it an interesting stat is all. Didn't know if people out there in sj land might have a theory as to why not.

 

[Gehrig]

To me at least the main reason that Cabrera is not getting more press is that he doesn't have a national "public persona". I can't remember the last time I saw a Cabrera interview. I have no sense at all about his personality. Is he a low key fun guy or is he intense?

 

[LongTimeListener]

A few years ago his wife called the cops at 6 a.m. because he was just coming home and there was some sort of domestic incident. By all reasonable calculations he played the follow-up game stone drunk. He went 0 for 11 that weekend as the Tigers fell out of contention. He has also gone farther from skinny to fat in the public eye than anyone since Elvis.

I don't think intense about baseball is the way I'd describe him.

 

[poindexter]

DH didn't come in until 1974 -- after the last Triple Crown.

1973.

 

[Dick Whitman]

A few years ago his wife called the cops at 6 a.m. because he was just coming home and there was some sort of domestic incident. By all reasonable calculations he played the follow-up game stone drunk. He went 0 for 11 that weekend as the Tigers fell out of contention. He has also gone farther from skinny to fat in the public eye than anyone since Elvis.

I don't think intense about baseball is the way I'd describe him.

Don't forget that he was out drinking that night with the opposing manager.

 

[LongTimeListener]

A few years ago his wife called the cops at 6 a.m. because he was just coming home and there was some sort of domestic incident. By all reasonable calculations he played the follow-up game stone drunk. He went 0 for 11 that weekend as the Tigers fell out of contention. He has also gone farther from skinny to fat in the public eye than anyone since Elvis.

I don't think intense about baseball is the way I'd describe him.

Don't forget that he was out drinking that night with the opposing manager.

Oh my God, I did forget that. Makes it so much better. That is a damn good laugh for the day, thanks.

 

[hondo]

It's also been so long since baseball had a Triple Crown winner that no one in baseball's young(er) demographic can assign much of a value to it.

Do we have to explain to those demographics how hitting a lot of home runs, driving in a lot of runs and getting more hits per at-bats (batting average, don't you know?) are good things? If we do, then they're burying themselves under their geek-assed standards of what makes a good ballplayer or not.
I'll take the guy who has more homers and RBI, and a higher average THAN ANYONE over a rookie who right now has 14 fewer homers and 56 fewer RBI. Could give a rat's ass what kind of nerdy stat you come up with on Mike Trout. He's not the ballplayer Cabrera has been this season.
And I suppose Cabrera's team already winning its division and Trout's team in third place shouldn't have anything to do with this conversation?