Whither Hampton Roads?

[BartonK]

So I'm at my computer without much to do and the Famous Toastery Bowl on in the background yesterday, and it got me to thinking (and researching): Hampton Roads / Tidewater / Norfolk-Virginia Beach is the largest metro area in the country without a Big 5 major league or Power 5 college team. They've got AAA baseball, ECHL hockey, a Sun Belt FBS school, three FCS schools, and that's it. No big NASCAR track, no minor sport that sucks up a lot of fan dollars (like lacrosse in Maryland), not even indoor football. Why is that?
I've seen chatter on here before that Old Dominion thinks they should be entitled to more success in college football, but shouldn't they, with 1.75 million people and no competition for sponsorships / NIL dollars? Some light Internet work turns up half-assed proposals for the Expos in '05 and for NHL expansion in the late '90s, but the region is hardly ever on lists of proposed relocation targets for any of the major sports these days.
Seems odd to me. I thought about the heavy military / lots of transients explanation, but San Diego, Tampa, and Jacksonville all have major league teams. Norfolk has a low-major college football team that just blew a huge lead in a Dec. 18 bowl game.

 

[Big Circus]

This is probably more relevant to the pros than colleges, but the area doesn't have the corporate presence that most comparable metros its size have. The military thing plays into that, but to build an arena/stadium in 2023, you need corporations to buy up the suites, and HR is lighter on that than most.

It also doesn't help that it's a whole bunch of different localities negotiating instead of one county - and it's all separate cities, so it's not the same Virginia organizational issue Richmond has* where the city and the counties can't get on the same page. And no matter where you put the stadium/arena, the harbor and the rivers (and, more to the point, the relative lack of crossings of said rivers) make it a nightmare for a significant portion of the population to get there.

EDIT: To be clear, the lack of regional cooperation is the same for HR that it is for other areas - it's just not because of the usual factor (cities in VA being politically separate entities).

 

[Brooklyn Bridge]

Where would the arena be placed? Virginia Beach, Norfolk, Hampton? Wherever it goes, there will be traffic problems.

I’ll add that DC is 3.5 hours away, so it’s doable for a weekend, event, etc.

 

[Cosmo]

Circus pretty much nails it here. There is a population base, but it is extremely transient and spread out over about six or seven different municipalities. The Wizards consider most of Virginia to be their territory and would fight anything that came into that area, or Richmond for that matter. I visit the area quite a bit for work and it's just very spread out. I don't think you'll get people from Portsmouth clamoring to drive to VB for a random NBA game.

 

[TigerVols]

When the Great Dismal Swamp National Wildlife Refuge is your calling card, it's no wonder your regional marketing faces an uphill climb.

 

[Big Circus]

Don't forget the giant park built over a landfill!

But seriously, coming from a guy with in-laws in Chesapeake, Hampton Roads sucks. Norfolk is moderately interesting, and I'm higher on the Virginia Beach oceanfront than most (and Sandbridge is wonderful) but otherwise, it's just suburban sprawl.

 

[LanceyHoward]

I have only been to the area once. But my impression is that while the census bureau describes it as one metro area it does not feel like one, It is very spread out and is basically a collection of small cities. I wondered if people would be willing to drive to a central arena.

 

[rtse11]

Didn't the Virginia Squires of the ABA try that 1 year, playing a few games at multiple sites? IIRC they disbanded pretty soon after

 

[Driftwood]

I was there for a brief time 30 years ago, and I completely agree with the one metro area/multiple locales and the transient analogies.
I might as well have been a season ticket holder for the Hampton Roads Admirals because I went every chance I could. I also went to see the Tidewater Tides play several times at some old janky stadium somewhere out toward Virginia Beach, I think. They were building a baseball stadium in downtown Norfolk then, and the talks of luring MLB were all the rage. It obviously didn't happen, and although I've never seen it, that stadium would be a relic itself at this point.

 

[Big Circus]

Harbor Park is actually pretty nice. Good place to watch a game.

 

[HanSenSE]

Didn't the Virginia Squires of the ABA try that 1 year, playing a few games at multiple sites? IIRC they disbanded pretty soon after

The Virginia Squires were one of those teams that was hanging on in the ABA's last year in hope of getting into the NBA. The Carolina Cougars also tried the regional thing, but, of course, were fighting ACC hoops. They eventually became the Spirits of St. Louis, no?

 

[maumann]

I was there for a brief time 30 years ago, and I completely agree with the one metro area/multiple locales and the transient analogies.
I might as well have been a season ticket holder for the Hampton Roads Admirals because I went every chance I could. I also went to see the Tidewater Tides play several times at some old janky stadium somewhere out toward Virginia Beach, I think. They were building a baseball stadium in downtown Norfolk then, and the talks of luring MLB were all the rage. It obviously didn't happen, and although I've never seen it, that stadium would be a relic itself at this point.

The Admirals! With brilliant maniac John Brophy on the bench, they had a huge rivalry with the Raleigh IceCaps when the ECHL was still a small, regional league. Brophy, with his shocking white hair and hair-trigger temperament, was guaranteed to do something crazy every time the Admirals came to town. (Plus, the original Admirals' ticket office phone ended in PUCK!)

I don't know much more to add to what's already been said. Population but no anchor (heh) corporate industries. The NHL could do worse than moving the Coyotes there, although the AHL failed.

 

[dixiehack]

(Plus, they had a great phone number for marketing. XXX-PUCK!)

The Predators had this the first several years in town and I don’t know why they let it go. I’ll be drooling in a nursing home someday, unable to remember my children’s names, but somewhere in the back of my brain I’ll still hear Pete Weber sounding out “or call SixOneFive, Seh-ven Seh-ven Ohh, Puck.”

 

[Cosmo]

The corporate sponsor thing can't be understated. The LPGA stop at Kingsmill in Williamsburg was hugely popular among the players. But once Anheuser Busch/Mich Ultra dropped out of sponsoring the event, it was dead. Couldn't offer a competitive purse.

 

[Brooklyn Bridge]

Don't forget the giant park built over a landfill!

But seriously, coming from a guy with in-laws in Chesapeake, Hampton Roads sucks. Norfolk is moderately interesting, and I'm higher on the Virginia Beach oceanfront than most (and Sandbridge is wonderful) but otherwise, it's just suburban sprawl.

Mount Trashmore. I did a Turkey Trot there in November.

My wife has family in Chesapeake as well and it all looks the same. Strip malls, gas stations and box stores. I like Norfolk of the towns in the area, but don’t think it’s enough to support a major league team.

 

[Huggy]

The Admirals! With brilliant maniac John Brophy on the bench, they had a huge rivalry with the Raleigh IceCaps when the ECHL was still a small, regional league. Brophy, with his shocking white hair and hair-trigger temperament, was guaranteed to do something crazy every time the Admirals came to town. (Plus, the original Admirals' ticket office phone ended in PUCK!)

I don't know much more to add to what's already been said. Population but no anchor (heh) corporate industries. The NHL could do worse than moving the Coyotes there, although the AHL failed.

I know two guys with connections to Brophy, one played with him in the minors with the Long Island Ducks and another played for him in the AHL. Both loved him (the guy who played for him, who was a scorer not a fighter, said Brophy was happy if he had one fight a year as long as he was scoring) and their stories were endless. one of the great characters, and all-time hard men, in hockey history.

 

[Driftwood]

The Admirals! With brilliant maniac John Brophy on the bench, they had a huge rivalry with the Raleigh IceCaps when the ECHL was still a small, regional league. Brophy, with his shocking white hair and hair-trigger temperament, was guaranteed to do something crazy every time the Admirals came to town. (Plus, the original Admirals' ticket office phone ended in PUCK!)

I don't know much more to add to what's already been said. Population but no anchor (heh) corporate industries. The NHL could do worse than moving the Coyotes there, although the AHL failed.

I was at one game where Brophy and the opposing coach had a literal punch up across the glass.

 

[Woody Long]

I was at one game where Brophy and the opposing coach had a literal punch up across the glass.

If the other coach was Frank Anzalone of the Roanoke Express, it was probably richly deserved.

 

[maumann]

Charlotte, Greensboro, Winston-Salem, Raleigh, Roanoke, Richmond and Hampton Roads all in the ECHL at the same time was a tremendously fun and fight-filled time.

 

[Driftwood]

If the other coach was Frank Anzalone of the Roanoke Express, it was probably richly deserved.

No idea who it was. Too long ago. I can still vividly see Brophy and his white hair slinging punches over the glass, though.