Vinny Testaverde...another HOF argument

[CarltonBanks]

In the Paul Brown autobiography he consistently said that Otto Graham and Ken Anderson were similar as far as quality quarterbacks are concerned. I think Paul was in the early stages of dementia by then.

And Derek Fisher doesn't even belong in the Hall of Above Average.

 

[Bubbler]

And for Bubbler:

Two 4,000-yard-plus seasons. Put him in Canton!

 

[Captain_Kirk]

Vinnie goes in the same way I do--through the front door after paying the admission.

And somewhere in Kansas, John Hadl just kicked his dog...

 

[exmediahack]

Testeverde's career record: 90-123-1

Which also means a good chunk of those passing yards came against prevent defenses while down three touchdowns.

Take out that 1998 Jets season and his record is 78-119-1.

 

[Cubbiebum]

Better compiler: Kerry Collins or Vinny? I go with Kerry. He was the better QB, although barely.

 

[outofplace]

What if Vinny Testaverde were white?

There is a part of me that wonders if Testaverde would have been a lot better off if he hadn't wound up in Tampa, where he had that God awful first season as a starter (his second season). If there was a snake-bit organization in the NFL in the 1980s it was Tampa, between Bo Jackson refusing to sign and playing baseball to high draft picks that seemed like sure things becoming huge disappointments (of which Testaverde definitely was...) He had some respectable, even good, seasons, but none of them were in Tampa.

Nah. He had the great arm, but he was always too easy to fool interceptions. Somebody mentioned that game against Penn State, which was the perfect example of everything that was wrong with Testaverde.

 

[BYH]

Testaverde was the John Hadl of his generation....a lot of yards, a lot tds, a lot of interceptions, never came close to a championship.

Not that it would sway anyone's fake vote (understandably so), but to be fair, he had the Jets up 10-0 in the third quarter of the AFC title game in Denver in 1999 before the wheels fell off thru little fault of his own (I think he threw a pick with the game out of hand). Little doubt at all the Jets end up winning the Super Bowl if they get there.

Testaverde is obviously not a HOFer, but he still had a remarkable career. He finished his career with a 275/267 TD/INT ratio, and that's AFTER falling into a 77/112 TD/INT ratio hole in Tampa. His 1998 w/the Jets was utterly magnificent (12-1 as a starter, 29/7 TD/INT). In 2000, the year after his shredded Achilles cost the Jets the Super Bowl (not a Jets fan, so my comment comes somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but that team was ****ing loaded except at backup QB, where Parcells had Rick ****ing Mirer), he led the league in pass attempts at age 37. He started 15 games for the Cowboys at 41 and came off the street and led the Panthers to a victory in his debut in 2007, when he was almost 44 years old. He threw a TD in a record 21 straight years (which is admittedly a bit of a hollow and cheesy record, since he was put into late-season games in 2005 and 2006 just to keep the streak alive, but still pretty cool).

Someone once told me Testaverde was the type of guy who benefited from repetition and when he knew exactly what was expected of him. Can't be a coincidence he had the best years of his life for Parcells and Belichick, and it makes you wonder what kind of HOF debate we might be having if he benefited from that kind of coaching in his 20s and didn't open his career in the graveyard that was Tampa.

 

[Ben_Hecht]

Colorblindness is a *****.

 

[cyclingwriter]

Testaverde was the John Hadl of his generation....a lot of yards, a lot tds, a lot of interceptions, never came close to a championship.

Not that it would sway anyone's fake vote (understandably so), but to be fair, he had the Jets up 10-0 in the third quarter of the AFC title game in Denver in 1999 before the wheels fell off thru little fault of his own (I think he threw a pick with the game out of hand). Little doubt at all the Jets end up winning the Super Bowl if they get there.

Testaverde is obviously not a HOFer, but he still had a remarkable career. He finished his career with a 275/267 TD/INT ratio, and that's AFTER falling into a 77/112 TD/INT ratio hole in Tampa. His 1998 w/the Jets was utterly magnificent (12-1 as a starter, 29/7 TD/INT). In 2000, the year after his shredded Achilles cost the Jets the Super Bowl (not a Jets fan, so my comment comes somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but that team was ****ing loaded except at backup QB, where Parcells had Rick ****ing Mirer), he led the league in pass attempts at age 37. He started 15 games for the Cowboys at 41 and came off the street and led the Panthers to a victory in his debut in 2007, when he was almost 44 years old. He threw a TD in a record 21 straight years (which is admittedly a bit of a hollow and cheesy record, since he was put into late-season games in 2005 and 2006 just to keep the streak alive, but still pretty cool).

Someone once told me Testaverde was the type of guy who benefited from repetition and when he knew exactly what was expected of him. Can't be a coincidence he had the best years of his life for Parcells and Belichick, and it makes you wonder what kind of HOF debate we might be having if he benefited from that kind of coaching in his 20s and didn't open his career in the graveyard that was Tampa.

Fair statement on them being up 10-0 in the 1998 AFC championship game, but if that is the highwater mark of his playoff experience...well that ain't good.

 

[exmediahack]

If Testaverde and Kerry Collins are both compilers, Collins might have him beat for any HOF argument:

- Collins got the Giants to a Super Bowl in 2000
- He didn't kill himself through alcoholism
- His teammates didn't kill him after he was dropping n-bombs at a bar once with them.

Guy is a survivor.

 

[cyclingwriter]

If Testaverde and Kerry Collins are both compilers, Collins might have him beat for any HOF argument:

- Collins got the Giants to a Super Bowl in 2000
- He didn't kill himself through alcoholism
- His teammates didn't kill him after he was dropping n-bombs at a bar once with them.

Guy is a survivor.

One thing you can say for Collins, when he and the Giants went to the Super Bowl and sat and answered every question about the N-word drama and his battle with the bottle. Ray Lewis was at the same Super Bowl and any mention of Atlanta was off limits.

 

[shockey]

Testaverde was the John Hadl of his generation....a lot of yards, a lot tds, a lot of interceptions, never came close to a championship.

Not that it would sway anyone's fake vote (understandably so), but to be fair, he had the Jets up 10-0 in the third quarter of the AFC title game in Denver in 1999 before the wheels fell off thru little fault of his own (I think he threw a pick with the game out of hand). Little doubt at all the Jets end up winning the Super Bowl if they get there.

um, plenty of doubt, there, bucko. it is the jets, after all.

any, yes, they had a 10-0 lead. but vinny's offense didn't exactly light it up that day. collins, meanwhile, and his offense had no chance vs. the ravens' d in that supe. but collins had a GINORMOUS game in the nfc championship game demolition of the vikings to get the gints there.

for all of the missteps an immature collins took during his first years with the panthers, all chronicled on this thread, he has been nothing but a solid citizen since the giants rolled the dice to give him a second chance in '98 or '99. and accorsi drew a lot of heat for giving collins that second chance and a pretty nice contract, to boot.

in the overall acheme of things, neither kerry nor vinny are anywhiere close to hof-worthy. but in a head-to-head matchup, the teams kerry has started for have been markedly more successful that vinny's. and both are to be admired for overcoming terrible circumstances, personal and otherwise, with their first organizations to become very respectable qbs later in their careers.

 

[BYH]

Testaverde was the John Hadl of his generation....a lot of yards, a lot tds, a lot of interceptions, never came close to a championship.

Not that it would sway anyone's fake vote (understandably so), but to be fair, he had the Jets up 10-0 in the third quarter of the AFC title game in Denver in 1999 before the wheels fell off thru little fault of his own (I think he threw a pick with the game out of hand). Little doubt at all the Jets end up winning the Super Bowl if they get there.

um, plenty of doubt, there, bucko. it is the jets, after all.

Of course we can't assume the Jets would have won a matchup that never happened. But you were there. That team was rolling and bursting with an unbelievable confidence. I just cannot foresee a scenario in which Parcells, with the title of Greatest Coach Of All-Time (at least of the Super Bowl era) on the line, doesn't figure out a way for the Jets to destroy the Falcons.

 

[Yodel]

Wasn't New York's only TD in that AFC Championship game on a blocked punt?

 

[Quakes]

Testaverde was the John Hadl of his generation....a lot of yards, a lot tds, a lot of interceptions, never came close to a championship.

Not that it would sway anyone's fake vote (understandably so), but to be fair, he had the Jets up 10-0 in the third quarter of the AFC title game in Denver in 1999 before the wheels fell off thru little fault of his own (I think he threw a pick with the game out of hand). Little doubt at all the Jets end up winning the Super Bowl if they get there.

um, plenty of doubt, there, bucko. it is the jets, after all.

Of course we can't assume the Jets would have won a matchup that never happened. But you were there. That team was rolling and bursting with an unbelievable confidence. I just cannot foresee a scenario in which Parcells, with the title of Greatest Coach Of All-Time (at least of the Super Bowl era) on the line, doesn't figure out a way for the Jets to destroy the Falcons.

Sorry for the digression, but greatest coach of the Super Bowl era? That seems a bit much. Had the Jets won the Super Bowl that year, Parcells would have been 3-1 in Super Bowls, and his regular-season record to that point would have been 130-92-1 (.585). In terms of winning Super Bowls, Noll (4-0 in Super Bowls) and Walsh (3-0, plus he set up the one Seifert won after Walsh retired) were better, and Gibbs (3-1) was just as good. (Belichick is now 3-1 also.) And in terms of year-in, year-out consistent winning, Shula (.678 winning percentage, 2-4 in Super Bowls) and Landry (.607, 2-3) were better, too, and for longer periods of time.

 

[DanOregon]

Speaking of Hall of Fame arguments, I was thinking that Bill Parcells will become the first HOF coach in the face mask era who never coached a HOF qb, but there are two others. Any guesses?

 

[shockey]

Of course we can't assume the Jets would have won a matchup that never happened. But you were there. That team was rolling and bursting with an unbelievable confidence. I just cannot foresee a scenario in which Parcells, with the title of Greatest Coach Of All-Time (at least of the Super Bowl era) on the line, doesn't figure out a way for the Jets to destroy the Falcons.

whatever, who gives a spit? jets fans lean on that 0-0 lead as if they were destroying denver at halftime. but vinny's offense never got anything going all day. and once denver took the lead the jets never challenged. so this notion that those jets were oh-so close is largely a myth. yes, they were within a half of getting there. no closer than the last two jets teams. big whoop.

vinny did not step up in that game. and jets fans like to delude themselves into believing only vinny's opening-day ruptured achille tendon in '99 kept them the supe that season. yeesh...

 

[93Devil]

Speaking of Hall of Fame arguments, I was thinking that Bill Parcells will become the first HOF coach in the face mask era who never coached a HOF qb, but there are two others. Any guesses?

Gibbs?

 

[Cubbiebum]

The QB I really wonder about is Mark Brunell. Above .500 record, won 5 playoff games, three pro bowls and a very good TD-INT ratio. Also, he helped make an expansion team viable right away. Shouldn't be a big factor but he is the best QB in that franchises history.

Working against him will be the fact that he never made a Super bowl and he was never great, just very good for a long time. That means the counting stats aren't as high as others who have no shot.

 

[dreunc1542]

Mark ****ing Brunell? You really can't be serious.