Thoughts and Prayers: The Religion Thread

[Slacker]

OK, let's go there. But keep it a polite and civil discussion and/or debate at all times, understanding that everyone – meaning anyone – is entitled to his or her opinions and preferences on gods, higher powers and belief systems in general.

That said, this topic is good for starters:
Did God create man, or did man create God?

 

[DanOregon]

And part B. Does it matter?

 

[Azrael]

That which no greater can be conceived.

Posted this on the politics thread, but figured I'd bring it over here, too.
_________

Jefferson's bible is an interesting exercise.

But I gotta go King James, if only for the poetry.*


*It's further interesting (to me anyway) that the King James bible was being stitched together at the same time Shakespeare was becoming the dominant voice in the culture. Harold Bloom, the literary critic who died the other day, credits Shakespeare with inventing the modes of thought and language we swim in to this day. So the two seem reciprocal to me and inseparable, that bible and those plays, and the way we think of ourselves even now.

 

[Amy]

This was the translation I used before I got practical about how to support myself and thought I was going to be a near eastern/biblical archaeologist:

The New Oxford Annotated Bible with Apocrypha

Some day I will buy this translation:

 

[Alma]

If man created God, it brings into question how we arrived at a kind of moral order.

 

[Azrael]

If man created God, it brings into question how we arrived at a kind of moral order.

I think most paleoanthropologists would posit that 'morals' and 'ethics' arise as an evolutionary benefit to the group.

 

[Azrael]

Good story in the current New Yorker about the epic of Gilgamesh, and how it deeply influences and informs and reflects the stories told in the Old Testament.

How to Read “Gilgamesh”

 

[Alma]

I think most paleoanthropologists would posit that 'morals' and 'ethics' arise as an evolutionary benefit to the group.

Why would any given group arc toward benefit and not destruction? For what purpose is group survival, especially among people? Is the Khmer Rouge counter-evolutionary or something? If lions kill water buffalo and that’s evolution - a morally-neutral event, a matter of fact - what then would be a few murders on the human side?

I should note, among religious topics to discuss, this one gets into the weeds fast. We may as well go straight to climate change and theorize that, if man created God, the survival of the species is best served through random selection for elimination and forced infertility. Science is hard until faced with those prospects, then it backs off and discusses the amorphous “human ingenuity.”

 

[Azrael]

Why would any given group arc toward benefit and not destruction?

Because DNA's only job is to reproduce itself.

Whatever evolutionary outcome assists that imperative, prevails.

 

[heyabbott]

Good story in the current New Yorker about the epic of Gilgamesh, and how it deeply influences and informs and reflects the stories told in the Old Testament.

How to Read “Gilgamesh”

I am listening to a podcast called Literature and History by Doug Metzger and he discusses that its not only Gilgamesh but a myriad of early Bronze age stories are precursors to the bible. Creation, Noah, Moses, Tower of Babel.

And I can't recommend this book strongly enough, God, A Biography by Jack Miles.
Amazon product ASIN 0679743685

 

[JC]

The fiction thread.

 

[BitterYoungMatador2]

The fiction thread.

Sort of. Most fiction is at least somewhat believable.

 

[hondo]

More mass murder/wars have been in the name of religion than any other reason. The combination of Islam and Christianity have been particularly lethal.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Sort of. Most fiction is at least somewhat believable.

I saw a recent Internet meme which indicated that we’re supposed to believe that Noah built a ship the size of an aircraft carrier by himself (or maybe with his family), using nothing but the rudimentary tools of that time and with wood. Oh, and coincidentally, two of every animal just happened to be within walking distance of Noah’s big boat.

Then again, Noah did get drunk and lay uncovered in his tent, so that part is quite realistic.

 

[BitterYoungMatador2]

And that's one of the more believable bull**** tales, what with a book full of stories about talking snakes and virgins giving birth.

 

[justgladtobehere]

What has progressed more in the last 500 years? Mankind's understanding of god or mankind's understanding of the universe, i.e. its creation and the fundamental principles of matter?

 

[Alma]

What has progressed more in the last 500 years? Mankind's understanding of god or mankind's understanding of the universe, i.e. its creation and the fundamental principles of matter?

The reformation started in 1517, so probably mankind's understanding of God.

 

[justgladtobehere]

The reformation started in 1517, so probably mankind's understanding of God.

Yeah, the splintering of Christianity and the increase in atheism are sure signs we are on our way to hashing out this god thing.

 

[Vombatus]

Buddhist.

 

[Alma]

Yeah, the splintering of Christianity and the increase in atheism are sure signs we are on our way to hashing out this god thing.

It was a pretty big deal.