The Fall of Saigon: 50 years later

[dixiehack]

Fell down a Wikipedia hole and was reminded that Tuesday the 29th will mark the 50th anniversary of the American airlift out of Saigon wrapping up. Wednesday the 30th marks 50 years since the North Vietnamese completed their takeover and effectively ended the war.

I was still seven months away from being born, but I think our loss in Vietnam permanently scared this country and set off a martial backlash that has never fully subsided and sent us lurching down an authoritarian path even before Donald Trump showed up on a ballot. Our mythology of always being by the best left us hollow and the first crack in the armor ruined us for good.

Other than that I don’t think we’ve learned a damn thing. Recall that the evacuation of Afghanistan is what sent Biden’s approval rating underwater and he never recovered. Americans will accept any stupidity as long as you cloak it in enough macho G.I. Joe bull****.

 

[qtlaw]

I recall 50 years ago, drinking the Kool-Aid they were selling, and thinking "oh no, there goes the first domino! Communism is going to take over the world".

What was worse was subsequently learning that Ho Chi Minh was not some dedicated Communist, merely someone who wanted to return Vietnam to the Vietnamese people and break the colonialism/pseudo-colony chain. History has shown that Minh's path was the right one.

 

[Brooklyn Bridge]

I recall 50 years ago, drinking the Kool-Aid they were selling, and thinking "oh no, there goes the first domino! Communism is going to take over the world".

What was worse was subsequently learning that Ho Chi Minh was not some dedicated Communist, merely someone who wanted to return Vietnam to the Vietnamese people and break the colonialism/pseudo-colony chain. History has shown that Minh's path was the right one.

And they kicked out the French and the Japanese before the American involvement, so they had been fighting for years. My father served in the Air Force in Vietnam, so it’s always been fascinating to me.

 

[I Should Coco]

Good thread idea and good posts so far (although I need an "agree" button instead of "like" for Dixie's points).

Can you even imagine the U.S. getting involved in a long, protracted conflict today unless it was overwhelmingly in our economic interest? No chance, and the Vietnam War is a big reason why.

 

[micropolitan guy]

As someone who lived through both, terrorist attack or not, the withdrawal from Kabul was much less chaotic than the withdrawal from Saigon. The NVA were hours away from taking over the entire city when that final chopper bugged out.

The withdrawal from Afghanistan was much more orderly; the Taliban had no intention of attacking the air base. But the video of some people chasing the last airplane out filled the GOP's "disastrous withdrawal" narrative to a tee.

 

[Here me roar]

As someone who lived through both, terrorist attack or not, the withdrawal from Kabul was much less chaotic than the withdrawal from Saigon. The NVA were hours away from taking over the entire city when that final chopper bugged out.

The withdrawal from Afghanistan was much more orderly; the Taliban had no intention of attacking the air base. But the video of some people chasing the last airplane out filled the GOP's "disastrous withdrawal" narrative to a tee.

The people who most criticize Biden for it also conveniently ignore the fact that we airlifted more than 100,000 people out of the country. I'm not that well-versed in evacuations, but I think it was one of the biggest one in history.

 

[Driftwood]

While obviously not there myself, a bunch of the older guys I served with in the Navy were Vietnam vets.
My dad got out of the Army in '64, and they asked if he wanted to re-enlist and go to Vietnam. He declined.

 

[Brooklyn Bridge]

Good thread idea and good posts so far (although I need an "agree" button instead of "like" for Dixie's points).

Can you even imagine the U.S. getting involved in a long, protracted conflict today unless it was overwhelmingly in our economic interest? No chance, and the Vietnam War is a big reason why.

Not that it’s at the same level as Vietnam, but I would say that Iraq was a protracted war, lasting 8 years. A big change I think, is the lack of a draft/military conscription. Back then, people had no choice and that led to the mass demonstrations. With an all-volunteer force, the public at large is less affected.

 

[Brooklyn Bridge]

While obviously not there myself, a bunch of the older guys I served with in the Navy were Vietnam vets.
My dad got out of the Army in '64, and they asked if he wanted to re-enlist and go to Vietnam. He declined.

My uncle was in the Marines and the story goes, he re-enlisted weeks before his tour was up to get the “guy” who killed his buddy. Unfortunately, he died when I was a kid and my mom died when I was in high school, so I never knew the full story.

 

[2muchcoffeeman]

Good thread idea and good posts so far (although I need an "agree" button instead of "like" for Dixie's points).

Can you even imagine the U.S. getting involved in a long, protracted conflict today unless it was overwhelmingly in our economic interest? No chance, and the Vietnam War is a big reason why.

Afghanistan.

 

[BTExpress]

Nothing on TV today can match this tension (for a lot of people):

 

[Brooklyn Bridge]

Nothing on TV today can match this tension (for a lot of people):

What? I can see why people were going crazy about getting drafted. Combine that with the unclear nature of the war, and in hindsight, it was un winnable.

 

[dixiehack]

Nothing on TV today can match this tension (for a lot of people):

Shedeur Sanders didn’t get picked for that one either.

 

[micropolitan guy]

My older brother was lucky # 1 in the 1970 draft lottery, 7/9/51. Fortunately he had some medical issues and was classified 4F.

 

[I Should Coco]

Nothing on TV today can match this tension (for a lot of people):

In retrospect, that seems a bit like the "reaping" scene in Hunger Games.

 

[Vombatus]

The infamous last helicopter evacuation photos from that shack on a roof were not of the US Embassy, but of a CIA building a few blocks away.

 

[Driftwood]

When my dad got drafted, he was 22. He graduated high school in 1957 and came home from work one day in 1961 to a letter in the mailbox: "Report here next Tuesday. You've just won a free physical and trip to Germany!"

 

[UPChip]

To say nothing of leadership, I think you could make an argument that one of the biggest societal impacts post-Vietnam came from the people who were repulsed by the way Vietnam vets were treated after they got home. No, not Agent Orange or homelessness but the social guilt that led to a "Support The Troops (TM)" ethos that frankly turned a lot of rural America permanently away from liberalism in the early 2000s.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I attended a community college in 1971, and I remember attending classes with returning Vietnam veterans. I never heard anything from those guys about getting spit on, harangued or otherwise accosted over their service.

Did it happen, I suppose so, but I think it's a legend that took on much more significance than what occurred in real time.

I do think that, by 1970, the general populace didn't want to think about what was going on. So troops didn't return to ticker tape parades and were rarely invited to share their experiences. And the Army told returning soldiers to keep a low profile. Then there's the fact that returning Vietnam vets were technically children in most of the States if they were under 21. They couldn't vote, couldn't drink, couldn't get a bank loan. What would it be like if you fought for your life and country for a year, then came home and you couldn't buy a beer?

I think a lot of vets didn't return to abuse so much as neglect.

BTW, this story reminds me of the recent return of POW-MIA flags. I never saw one of them until Sylvester Stallone tarted sending Rambo in country to rescue unrepatriated POWs. Another urban legend tied to military adv dentures gone wrong.

PPS, by the early '70s many Vietnam vets ignored the Army's advice to keep their heads down. See Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

 

[Bubbler]

The troops coming home thing has always hit me the wrong way.

It was a war that became unpopular and was one we didn’t “win”.

Troops returning from un-won wars aren’t given ticker-tape parades. German soldiers going home after WWI didn’t march in thank you parades in Essen or Bremen.

This “lets worship the troops” thing developed in the 80s and has taken on almost religious adherence since and it helped create the myth of the abused Vietnam veteran. Part of our addiction to misplaced patriotism generally.