Sports Bloggers in the Press Box

[dooley_womack1]

No, I said that bloggers for the most part don't aspire for access, and snarkily put down the value of it. You can't put down the man and want to be the man simultaneously.

A newspaper is an established journalistic enterprise, which has earned access. If the paper doesn't want to fully use it and let Lupica write from home, it's the paper's choice. Just because you write on a subject and rig yourself a page count doesn't mean you should have access. By that standard, the press box should be filled with creative writing majors. And you use the free-lancer argument. Well, free-lancers aren't guaranteed access, either.

And, lastly, tell me exactly why a blogger should have access? What are they doing different than a newspaper? Express opinion? Papers have that. Snarkily? Lots of papers have that, too. Break news? An exception that bloggers are trying to make sound like the rule. I'm not saying that no blogger should ever get access, but there are far too many and far too many ways to rig prominence and page count to make it super common.

 

[Donegan17]

No, I said that bloggers for the most part don't aspire for access, and snarkily put down the value of it. You can't put down the man and want to be the man simultaneously.

A newspaper is an established journalistic enterprise, which has earned access. If the paper doesn't want to fully use it and let Lupica write from home, it's the paper's choice. Just because you write on a subject and rig yourself a page count doesn't mean you should have access. By that standard, the press box should be filled with creative writing majors. And you use the free-lancer argument. Well, free-lancers aren't guaranteed access, either.

And, lastly, tell me exactly why a blogger should have access? What are they doing different than a newspaper? Express opinion? Papers have that. Snarkily? Lots of papers have that, too. Break news? An exception that bloggers are trying to make sound like the rule. I'm not saying that no blogger should ever get access, but there are far too many and far too many ways to rig prominence and page count to make it super common.

yeah but than again, what are papers doing that bloggers aren't? Game reports? check. Opinions? check. Interviews? Some. I'll admit most blogs aren't doing jack other than collecting links and bragging about page hits, but there are some top notch blogs and the lack of an editor doesn't detract that much from the overall quality for well-done blogs. You get a sense of journalistic quality that you don't always get from blogs, but I think there does need to be some sort of change in terminology, or at least specification because there is a huge gulf of quality between the blogs that are run by Joe Fan who just collects a bunch of links and posts a few random thoughts and the top notch ones that are well run.

 

[dooley_womack1]

Well, with a newspaper, you almost always will get someone who's trained in how to cover games, how to ask the right questions, how to do the job ethically, how to interview well, who has a track record (usually for the better, tho not always), and they have editors who are for the most part strongly grounded in how to edit a story well. On the other hand, given how espn.com has such an utter lack of editing that shows through time after time, what can be expected from a blog with much more meager resources?

The bottom line is, when there potentially could be tens of thousands of bloggers going for precious press-box space, the bar has to be damn high for a lot of unknown quantities.

 

[Soccer15211]

Well, with a newspaper, you almost always will get someone who's trained in how to cover games, how to ask the right questions, how to do the job ethically, how to interview well, who has a track record (usually for the better, tho not always), and they have editors who are for the most part strongly grounded in how to edit a story well. On the other hand, given how espn.com has such an utter lack of editing that shows through time after time, what can be expected from a blog with much more meager resources?

The bottom line is, when there potentially could be tens of thousands of bloggers going for precious press-box space, the bar has to be damn high for a lot of unknown quantities.

Re: questions, etc.....

http://www.sportsjournalists.com/forum/threads/42043/

Just saying. Some reporters ask some stupid ****ing 'questions', if you can call it that. It's not always the bloggers hanging on a coach or player's nuts.

 

[indiansnetwork]

Unfortunately for the newspaper business, I think bloggers are the future of the sports media business. Once their is competition in the field of bloggers you will see the competence of those bloggers improve. There are already signs that bloggers are making major head way into the sports media business. Newspapers have lost a big deal of their business due to the Internet to begin with and this is the next step in the evolution. That being said there should be some established credentials that all bloggers should have to adhere to before they can enter a press box, press room or have interviews. Some good examples of blogs are here: http://www.sbnation.com/ , http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ , http://baseballcardblog.blogspot.com/ and http://www.minorleagueball.com/

 

[lono]

Well, with a newspaper, you almost always will get someone who's trained in how to cover games, how to ask the right questions, how to do the job ethically, how to interview well, who has a track record (usually for the better, tho not always) ...

Like your contention that newspapers are merely in the midst of a bad business cycle, your above observation is at best wishful thinking and at worst patently untrue.

Read the threads elsewhere here: This entire board is full of stories about supposed professional newspaper journalists who do things like wear team colors, accept all kinds of swag from the people they cover, don't know how to ask questions and behave like morons.

I work a highly competitive pro beat and there are a lot of great people on the beat, folks I have tremendous respect for. But there are also a lot of asshats who dress like bums, act like they're in junior high school and have ethics and demeanors that would embarrass a common street pimp.

That's not to say bloggers do or don't deserve credentials. That's an entirely different argument..

But there are a lot of legitimately credentialed newspaper people covering sports who have little or no training, aren't any good at covering games, rarely if ever ask good questions, have little or no ethics and are terrible interviewers.

And the newspapers have no one but themselves to blame, given that so many are run like sweatshops.

 

[baconboy]

That being said there should be some established credentials that all bloggers should have to adhere to before they can enter a press box, press room or have interviews. Some good examples of blogs are here: http://www.sbnation.com/ , http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ , http://baseballcardblog.blogspot.com/ and http://www.minorleagueball.com/

Shouldn't all media folks have to adhere to some sort of "established credentials" before being allowed into the press box?

Why should these "standards" apply only to the "bloggers" of the world?

Right now, those standards simply do not exist. The only standard that should matter, according to some on this board, is the age of the publication for which you work. And that's a pretty weak "standard."

There are "blogs" and web sites out there with bigger audiences than many established newspapers. Certainly, it's more rational to base credentials upon the size of a publication than it is its age of publication or method of delivering information.

Hell, it's the way the NFL determines SB credentials ... just ask anyone here who works for well estabalished newspaper with a small readership. You are SOL when it comes time to getting a SB credential. It's the bigger media outlets that get them ... the "standards" of the publcation are irrelevant. The NFL has issued SB credentials to guys in Batman outfits and American Idol losers with no journalism experience ... they simply issued credentials because these people represented big media outlets.

Hell, if standards mattered when it came time to issuing credentials, certainly the NYT and CBS, each of which have been busted for manufacturing stories in recent years, would not be given credentials. But they're big media outlets. So they get credentials.

Bottom line: when some sort of "standards" are created for older media outlets than maybe we can apply those same "standards" to bloggers and web sites.

I sit here on pins and needles awaiting the day those standards are established.

 

[Screwball]

Haven't gone through the entire thread, so sorry if this is a D_B, but I saw this on Boing Boing this morning, and thought it was relevant to the conversation:

Blogger-friendly baseball: Crystal Larsen wants to manage sporting venues when she graduates, and her work placement this year was with Major League Baseball. For my class, she produced a pitch to MLB for bringing bloggers into the games as credentialled press and encouraging them to disseminate accounts of the games -- something that MLB currently treats as a threat to be prevented.

Why would MLB want to do this? They've got the most successful website in pro sports. They want to drive people to mlb.com to get "accounts of the games" -- and buy tickets and T-shirts from the site at the same time.

Would a blogger agree to work under the mlb.com umbrella in exchange for access?

 

[chazp]

Any blogger or community reporter belongs in the press box if they have a legitimate reason for being there. It's not a daily newspaper reporter and television hack box - it's a press box.

Where the f**k do you think the word "press" comes from in "press box?"

I have an NFL beat. If I ever get a call from the team's PR people telling me I have to stand in the concourse next season because the PRESS box is full of fan-boy bloggers, I'm gonna quit my job and become a farmer.

Just because you understand HTML and have a website no more makes you a member of the media than dispensing Tylenol to my wife makes me a doctor.

Last year at SEC Media Days (Kickoff 2006), there were several bloggers there, but there were also a few empty chairs left, but if the crowd out newspaper (this was the newsroom, TV, radio and internet had their own rooms set up) reporters then that's a problem.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

That being said there should be some established credentials that all bloggers should have to adhere to before they can enter a press box, press room or have interviews. Some good examples of blogs are here: http://www.sbnation.com/ , http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ , http://baseballcardblog.blogspot.com/ and http://www.minorleagueball.com/

Shouldn't all media folks have to adhere to some sort of "established credentials" before being allowed into the press box?

Why should these "standards" apply only to the "bloggers" of the world?

Right now, those standards simply do not exist. The only standard that should matter, according to some on this board, is the age of the publication for which you work. And that's a pretty weak "standard."

There are "blogs" and web sites out there with bigger audiences than many established newspapers. Certainly, it's more rational to base credentials upon the size of a publication than it is its age of publication or method of delivering information.

Hell, it's the way the NFL determines SB credentials ... just ask anyone here who works for well estabalished newspaper with a small readership. You are SOL when it comes time to getting a SB credential. It's the bigger media outlets that get them ... the "standards" of the publcation are irrelevant. The NFL has issued SB credentials to guys in Batman outfits and American Idol losers with no journalism experience ... they simply issued credentials because these people represented big media outlets.

Hell, if standards mattered when it came time to issuing credentials, certainly the NYT and CBS, each of which have been busted for manufacturing stories in recent years, would not be given credentials. But they're big media outlets. So they get credentials.

Bottom line: when some sort of "standards" are created for older media outlets than maybe we can apply those same "standards" to bloggers and web sites.

I sit here on pins and needles awaiting the day those standards are established.

Yes, because the NYT and CBS should be defined as news operations by their worst mistakes.
You are not the future. You're barely the present.

 

[Tom Petty]

That being said there should be some established credentials that all bloggers should have to adhere to before they can enter a press box, press room or have interviews. Some good examples of blogs are here: http://www.sbnation.com/ , http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/ , http://baseballcardblog.blogspot.com/ and http://www.minorleagueball.com/

Shouldn't all media folks have to adhere to some sort of "established credentials" before being allowed into the press box?

Why should these "standards" apply only to the "bloggers" of the world?

Right now, those standards simply do not exist. The only standard that should matter, according to some on this board, is the age of the publication for which you work. And that's a pretty weak "standard."

There are "blogs" and web sites out there with bigger audiences than many established newspapers. Certainly, it's more rational to base credentials upon the size of a publication than it is its age of publication or method of delivering information.

Hell, it's the way the NFL determines SB credentials ... just ask anyone here who works for well estabalished newspaper with a small readership. You are SOL when it comes time to getting a SB credential. It's the bigger media outlets that get them ... the "standards" of the publcation are irrelevant. The NFL has issued SB credentials to guys in Batman outfits and American Idol losers with no journalism experience ... they simply issued credentials because these people represented big media outlets.

Hell, if standards mattered when it came time to issuing credentials, certainly the NYT and CBS, each of which have been busted for manufacturing stories in recent years, would not be given credentials. But they're big media outlets. So they get credentials.

Bottom line: when some sort of "standards" are created for older media outlets than maybe we can apply those same "standards" to bloggers and web sites.

I sit here on pins and needles awaiting the day those standards are established.

maybe knowing the proper way to use the words then and than are a starting point. but THAN again, maybe people who read blogs don't really expect quality writing, just some random idiot's random opinion.

or maybe that's just one guy's opinion that works for an ESTABLISHED PUBLCATION.

thanks for stopping by.

 

[Your Huckleberry]

TP, you have an error in your post as well.

 

[sportsnut]

Ok I think this topic will see no end.

1. I agree with people that are here to protect the blogging community because I was mistaken before and the entertainment industry in general including perezhilton.com, gawker.com and a handful of sites dedicated to i.e. video games that cover news about the industry like joystick and another one that is owned and operated by the gawker media group does get access to events like the Oscars, Cannes and hollywood premires and sneak previews. In the video game industry sites mentioned above get access to shows like E3(The video game version of the World Series, Super Bowl and NBA Finals all in one).

So if the above industries can accept the blogging community as a legitimate media... Why can't the sports business do so as well??? If patsnation.com (Fictional) a sports blog with a staff of lets say 10 and provides all New England Patriots fans with daily news, game updates and even a few interviews get access to a patriots game? If they have provided legitimate coverage of the team for a season or so and would like to provide the readers with alittle more, I see no harm in letting this member of patsnation.com cover a game and get 5min with Tom Brady and or Randy Moss.

If they have the love and skills to do it. Why not give them a chance and maybe give them credentials on a game by game program and see what happens. Don't screw it up for everyone because one blogger ****ed up. i.e. a member posted a link to sbnation.com a blogging network that pays its writers or bloggers 50 percent of all revenue taken in though a specific blog. Like if I wrote about the Jets and my blog got a million hits and the site got $5000 in revenue, I would get $2500 thats not a paid little paycheck for doing what I love and I would be doing it anyways. So if I got a million or so visitors a month and I checked with Jets media department about getting credentials for a game, I would hope they would say yes.

Maybe its a bad idea to give them full access right away. But if they let you cover the game from the press room and then gave you access to a player for a few minutes to see what you would do. I don't see a problem with that and remember internet journalism has come along way since blogspot.com launched and made everyone a journalist.

 

[Perry White]

The Isles have set up a separate press box for bloggers: http://www.newyorkislanders.com/pressbox/archive.asp?id=1665

 

[D-3 Fan]

I'll add my eight cents worth. Sportsbloggers do things that regular sport writers may not do (gain a little more access to the team, inside scoops, what nots). With that said, do sportsbloggers should have creds to be in the pressbox? No and yes. No, if they're writing just their opinions and talking. Yes (which is stretching it) to those who have learned how to follow the same principles when it comes to reporting on their blogs as other media personnel. I admit that the majority of them are looser fan boys, but for those who don't venture to fan boy-ism and do their job right, they do get knocked because of the wannabe Dan Patricks and Screamin A's on the blogosphere.

I am a blogger online for weekly magazine website for the DSM Register which is focused towards the 23-40 crowd. I had to make myself understand that before I consented to blog for them that I am not a employee of the Register and not on the staff. Therefore, I'm a non-staff writer. What is interesting that for the past year that I've been doing this, most of the bloggers put down a few musings about what party they went to, or why they didn't put pepper on their eggs.

I've always felt that my place, as a non-staff blogger is to keep my ass out of pressbox or in the middle of something newsworthy. It's insane for someone like me to try to go into a pressbox and expect to get creds, just because I'm going to blog about a game. I pay a ticket, go in, sit and watch the game (w/o a laptop). After the game, I head home and I write what I saw. That's all I can do.

This culture of sports blogging with the Rivals website, fan-based sites, and those run by newspapers or television has its positives and negatives. The ones who should be given creds are the ones whose sportsblogs are legit and informative enough to be considered as factual; have at least 1-2 professionals writers on staff who can give advice on how to cover events; make the effort to go to every game and cover it consistently, and be fair and balance without showing prejudice toward being a fan boy.

I don't know, that's just what I think as a newbie blogger.

 

[Your Huckleberry]

I love loser fanboys. They let me know that I am acutally better than somebody.

 

[Mr. X]

I thought there would be interest here in the following from the Arena Football League.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

ArenaBowl XXI NEW ORLEANS – June 29, 2007


BLOGGERS WELCOME



NEW YORK – The Arena Football League will allocate up to five seats in its ArenaBowl XXI New Orleans press box to the winners of its inaugural ArenaBowl “Blog of a Lifetime” opportunity.



Winners will receive an official ArenaBowl XXI press credential, a seat in the press box and postgame access to players and coaches.



In order to win, bloggers must:



Ø Visit the blogger registration page located at www.arenabowl.com.

Ø Complete an application.

Ø Write an active blog for one Wild Card playoff game this weekend (June 29-July 2).



Following the Wild Card round, a group of bloggers will be selected to move forward and will repeat the blogging process through the Divisional and Conference Championship rounds.



The bloggers who are invited to attend ArenaBowl XXI will demonstrate consistent AFL playoff coverage, creativity and professionalism.



The winners will be announced on Monday, July 16.



--AFL--

 

[goalmouth]

The bloggers who are invited to attend ArenaBowl XXI will demonstrate consistent AFL playoff coverage, creativity and professionalism.

So , the attention-desperate (and grammar-challenged) AFL will judge a bunch of amateurs on their professionalism? I guess night is now day as well.

 

[Diabeetus]

As for the argument that newspaper people know how to cover games, is it even relevant any more? You could give a chimp with a typewriter the basic format, have him stick in a few cliche quotes and type in the final score.

The fact is, game stories are ****ing boring and hardly nobody reads them because people who care already watch/follow the game on a gamecast. There's no need for them any more, and I think the strength of a lot of blogs is that they realize this. If a paper were to do more opinion/analysis, then I think people would finally be getting something they couldn't somewhere else.

 

[auggie_ben_doggie]

The fact is, game stories are ****ing boring and hardly nobody reads them because people who care already watch/follow the game on a gamecast. There's no need for them any more, and I think the strength of a lot of blogs is that they realize this. If a paper were to do more opinion/analysis, then I think people would finally be getting something they couldn't somewhere else.

If "game stories are ****ing boring and hardly nobody reads them" is the kind of uninformed blanket opinion we can expect in your analysis-based newspaper coverage, count me out.

I read gamers of games I watch on television from sources outside the Associated Press story that runs on every Web site. As a Mets fan, I'm reading the NY dailies because I know those guys (for the most part) are going to haul ass to try and create an angle that isn't going to be in the competition. If a beat reporter isn't giving you anything beyond what you read in a gamecast, that reporter should be typing box scores.