School shooting in Centennial, Colo.

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heyabbott said:
someone else's dead kid is the cost your gun. And those that want their guns will gladly pay that price.

How many lives do the Fourth Amendment and Fifth Amendment cost us each year? Why don't we repeal them? What good do they serve anyway?

Why do we allow spousal testimonial privilege, or even the priest–penitent privilege? Neither is guaranteed in the Constitution.

If we could save just one life, aren't they worth repealing?
 
YankeeFan said:
heyabbott said:
someone else's dead kid is the cost your gun. And those that want their guns will gladly pay that price.

How many lives do the Fourth Amendment and Fifth Amendment cost us each year? Why don't we repeal them? What good do they serve anyway?

Why do we allow spousal testimonial privilege, or even the priest–penitent privilege? Neither is guaranteed in the Constitution.

If we could save just one life, aren't they worth repealing?

Are you talking about the same Fourth Amendment that has been raped and pillaged by the Patriot Act?

Why is dismantling that amendment OK, but the Second must remain untouched?
 
YankeeFan said:
Inky_Wretch said:
The people who were outraged aren't in power. And those in power weren't outraged.

Oh good, another thread where the guy who owns 76 guns gets to pretend he's anti-gun.

What proposed law would have prevented this 18-year0old kid from buying a shotgun[i/]?



Inky_Wretch said:
If you've got time, this is one hell of a read

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/15/magazine/inside-the-power-of-the-nra.html?pagewanted=5&_r=1&smid=tw-nytimes&pagewanted=all&

Gun-loving legislators like Representative John Dingell of Michigan worried that even harsher restrictions were imminent and clamored for the N.R.A. to wake up and enter the political arena. The lobbying arm, the Institute for Legislative Action, was formed in 1975.

Great article. It never mentions the party affiliation of this Dingell guy. What ever happened to him? Can I just assume he is/was some sort of right-wing Republican, and a forefather to the modern Tea Party movement?


That's the problem with the 21 year old drinking age. 18 year olds should be
spending their money on beer instead of guns and ammo.
 
This is what happened in Colorado when the state passed gun-control measures such as expanded background checks and limits on magazine, which presumably a majority (or more) support, based on polling. First, two state Senators who voted for it lost a recall election launched specifically because of that vote. Another resigned rather than face a recall. And seven out of 62 sheriffs signed on to a lawsuit trying to overturn the restrictions.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/us/sheriffs-refuse-to-enforce-laws-on-gun-control.html

This wouldn't happen most anywhere else, because legislators would be too frightened, or in the pocket of Big Revolver, in the first place to even bring these things up for a vote. And as long as the virulently pro-gun, "it's my way of life" crowd faithfully shows up to vote and give money to the NRA, anyone who is not, does not, I don't see things changing.
 
YankeeFan said:
If we could save just one life, aren't they worth repealing?

Repealing? Nice little strawman you've built for yourself there. Didn't notice anyone here arguing for a wholesale repeal.
We can reform our gun laws without repealing the Second Amendment. The second is no more sancrosanct than the other amendments that see their scope changed or modified all the time by judicial ruling or legislation.
 
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YankeeFan said:
Inky_Wretch said:
The people who were outraged aren't in power. And those in power weren't outraged.

Oh good, another thread where the guy who owns 76 guns gets to pretend he's anti-gun.

What proposed law would have prevented this 18-year0old kid from buying a shotgun[i/]?


1. I've never pretended to be anti-gun. That's either the dumbest thing you've ever posted or straight trolling.

2. Where, exactly, did I say anything in the post you quoted about how any law would have kept this kid from getting a shotgun?
 
Morris816 said:
I'm not interested in taking all guns away from everybody but just looking for reasonable measures to reduce the chances that somebody not in their right mind gets his or her hands on a gun and takes, or attempts to take, somebody's life.

No one has figured out how to accomplish that yet.
 
Speaking of the 4th amendment. Judge shoots down the NSA

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/us/politics/federal-judge-rules-against-nsa-phone-data-program.html?hp&_r=0
 
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

It’s a stark fact that is fueling an already intense debate about gun rights in this state: It was an armed deputy who stopped the Arapahoe High School gunman last week from unleashing a deadly massacre, not the expansive new gun control laws approved by Colorado Democrats in March in reaction to two mass shootings.

That is the increasingly inescapable takeaway as details emerge from the school shooting Friday, when the 18-year-old gunman injured another student at random before turning the gun on himself in the school library as the armed deputy was closing in on him.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/18/prevention-of-school-massacre-shoots-down-argument/#ixzz2ny8Y7jpZ
 
YankeeFan said:
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."

It’s a stark fact that is fueling an already intense debate about gun rights in this state: It was an armed deputy who stopped the Arapahoe High School gunman last week from unleashing a deadly massacre, not the expansive new gun control laws approved by Colorado Democrats in March in reaction to two mass shootings.

That is the increasingly inescapable takeaway as details emerge from the school shooting Friday, when the 18-year-old gunman injured another student at random before turning the gun on himself in the school library as the armed deputy was closing in on him.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/18/prevention-of-school-massacre-shoots-down-argument/#ixzz2ny8Y7jpZ

Armed cop > armed teachers
 
This was from a CNN story at the time:

The rampage might have resulted in many more casualties had it not been for the quick response of a deputy sheriff who was working as a school resource officer at the school, Robinson said.

Lessons of Columbine and other school shootings helped in Arapahoe
Once he learned of the threat, he ran -- accompanied by an unarmed school security officer and two administrators -- from the cafeteria to the library, Robinson said. "It's a fairly long hallway, but the deputy sheriff got there very quickly."

The deputy was yelling for people to get down and identified himself as a county deputy sheriff, Robinson said. "We know for a fact that the shooter knew that the deputy was in the immediate area and, while the deputy was containing the shooter, the shooter took his own life."

He praised the deputy's response as "a critical element to the shooter's decision" to kill himself, and lauded his response to hearing gunshots. "He went to the thunder," he said. "He heard the noise of gunshot and, when many would run away from it, he ran toward it to make other people safe."


So, a good guy with a gun (and others) ran toward the shooter, and along the way warned people to take cover.

But I see no indication that he drew his gun, or that the shooter thought for sure someone was coming to shoot him. All we know is that he knew somebody was coming, and apparently he wasn't planning on a gunfight involving anyone else.

The resource officer on duty definitely was a hero, and did his job as someone in his position should. But implicit in the statement about "a good guy with a gun" is that the good guy is drawing it and shooting to kill.

If this proves anything, it's that having a trained professional at the ready -- not teachers or janitors or students carrying weapons -- can make a big difference in these situations.
 
Claire Davis, the 17-year-old shot in the shooting, has died.

RIP.

http://bit.ly/1cJAeDs
 

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