Running Baseball Thread, Part the XII

[mike311gd]

Marshall sucking donkey **** in the first inning.

He got out of it all right, though.

 

[outofplace]

If I may be allowed to repeat what I wrote here more than a week ago, before the Mets-Phillies series. The Mets will be out of first place by Sept. 15 is what I wrote then. I was wrong. It will be a lot sooner than Sept. 15.

And for all Jose Reyes MVP folks, I like the guy, too, but his bat has disappeared the last two weeks. He still helps with his legs but right now David Wright is the Mets' MVP. As for league MVP, almost impossible to decide right now. Let's see if Fielder can get the Brewers back on top and check out Howard-Rollins as the Phillies come down the stretch.

Hey... Ryan Howard disappeared for the final three weeks last year, and you nuts gave MVP to him.

If things go as they have been the past week, Reyes will not be MVP.

But, as of yesterday when I posted, there shouldn't be anyone close.

David Wright: .319 average, .414 OBP, .537 slugging, 24 HR, 87 RBI, 92 runs, 30 SB (in 34 attempts)
Jose Reyes: .295 average, .369 OBP, .433 slugging, 9 HR, 48 RBI, 100 runs, 72 SB (in 89 attempts)

Sorry, but even 42 more steals don't make up for Wright's advantage in batting average, on-base percentage, slugging, homers and RBI. The only other edge Reyes has offensively is runs scored, but he's a leadoff guy and the difference is only eight.

And don't start with the distraction Reyes creates for Wright. They feed off each other and Wright also creates opportunities for the hitters behind him with his on-base percentage and speed. Pitchers can't exactly ignore Wright on the bases, either, and he's also on a good bit more than Reyes.

There are points worth arguing here, but there is no way you can rationally say that Wright isn't even close to Reyes right now as an MVP candidate.

Wright's numbers are a byproduct of Reyes scaring the **** out of pitchers.

Mets' 2-4 don't see many breaking pitches when he is on base.

And Wright helps Reyes by being a power presence behind him. And he helps the batters behind him with his speed and his on-base skills. And Reyes being on base guarantees NOTHING. Look at the erratic season Carlos Beltran has had or the ****ty one Carlos Delgado has had.

What next? When a guy pitches a good game for the Mets, it's really only because the opponent is just so shaken up by the intimidating presense that is Jose Reyes?

And please....stick April in YOUR tailpipe. I'll take the guy who is picking it up in the heart of the pennant race rather than a guy like Reyes, who got off to a great start and then fell off as the season went on.

I know it is beyond your capacity to admit when you are wrong, but in this case you are. You made a ridiculous statement (nobody is close to Reyes) and you keep trying to manipulate reality to justify it instead of just admitting that you overstated things.

If I had a dime for every time I have been right and no one here ackowledged it, I'd live in the Hamptons.

I'd say "So, it works both ways." But that ain't true. I have admitted being wrong on numerous occasions here.

So, go mug Aunt Mabel for a clue.

I've never seen it. I've seen you make ridiculous argument after ridiculous argument trying to support a weak point, but that's it.

And I have backed you when I thought you were right. I was the one arguing right with you about ERA being the most telling statistic for pitchers.

The Mets have been "dying" for five games. They were in great shape until the current losing streak, but that's a pretty damn small sample size to base an MVP argument on. Comparing that to April is unfair because there were other factors involved in the Mets' strong start.

Billy Wagner was dominating early on. He has been terrible of late. John Maine was pitching like a Cy Young Award candidate in April. He's no better than decent now. Joe Smith was pitching extremely well out of the bullpen in April. He has since faded and been sent to the minors, a big deal for a team that is having huge bullpen problems. Shawn Green hit the ball extremely well the first month of the season, but he has been terrible since.

The difference between the Mets now and in April is a lot more than which of their MVP candidates is producing.

 

[outofplace]

Right now Reyes is still the Mets' MVP. Wright could change that with a good September, but it should not be forgotten that Reyes was the only spark of life on a team that pretty much slept-walked from April through July. Reyes hasn't had a month where he was invisible, as Wright did in April. The stuff about Reyes' effect on a game and his ability to set things up for his teammates isn't overblown. Wright and Beltran have had subpar years for the most part, but their averages with Reyes on base are far, far above their numbers when he's not. Wright is an underrated base-stealer, but there's no way he affects a game with his speed the way Reyes does. I've seen Reyes rattle pitchers into balks, I've seen him go from second to third on groundballs to the left side, I've seen him score from first on a single, I've seen him create runs and scoring opportunities in ways that hardly anyone else in the game can. Anyone who's watched the Mets closely since April would say that Reyes has been the one indispensible Met. One bad series in Philly doesn't change that.

Even though you don't deserve to be in the Pro Football HOF, that post needs bronzing.

Yeah...because you actually found somebody to agree with you. That is a rare find.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

Reyes was expected to be the guy going into the season, and solidified the thought in everyone's mind with a great start. Since then, he has had a disappointing season. Look at those numbers & tell me where you see an MVP.

I guess you have to have a deeper understanding of the game to be able to grasp what sort of havoc he wreaks on the way pitchers go at batters when he is on base.

You have an irritating habit of assuming that anyone who disagrees with you doesn't understand what you're saying. How many MVPs did Vince Coleman win? How many would you have given him?

Reyes, by month:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
April 24 104 26 37 9 5 2 18 16 11 17 3 .356 .442 .596 1.038
May 27 112 16 30 5 2 0 7 14 19 12 3 .268 .349 .348 .697
June 27 106 13 35 2 1 2 9 14 14 10 5 .330 .405 .425 .829
July 27 117 21 31 9 2 3 7 9 9 11 3 .265 .317 .453 .770
August 27 120 24 32 3 1 2 7 13 10 22 3 .267 .338 .358 .697

I would expect him to be an MVP one day, he has that kind of talent, but he wasn't this year. Rickey HEnderson wasn't a consistent MVP candidate because of the intangibles of being a pest on the bases, it was because he was so good at so many things in addition to stealing bases. Other than walking more & more SBs (which are both important), he will have been better last year, and in balance his season this year will fall short of last year's barring a big finish. The fact that you see Castillo hit singles in the hole vacated by the 2B covering doesn't make Reyes the MVP and doesn't make your analysis sophisticated.

 

[Chi City 81]

**** this ****ing dog-ass team.

 

[beefncheddar]

Guy,

Clearly you don't get it. He STEALS BASES! He's DISRUPTIVE! He plays in NEW YORK! He's FAST! And LITTLE! And there's nothing voters love more than giving awards to little fellas.

If, and that's unbelievably becoming a big if, New York wins the East, then he's a very good candidate for NL MVP. One of two on that team.

And in NO WAY the unquestioned MVP of the league. Frankly, I don't understand why it's even a discussion.

Oh, wait, actually I do. It's called FLAMEWAR!!!!!!eleven!!!!!!!11!!!!!!

 

[friend of a friend]

Cubs turning Wandy Rodriguez into Sandy Koufax again.

 

[outofplace]

Guy,

Clearly you don't get it. He STEALS BASES! He's DISRUPTIVE! He plays in NEW YORK! He's FAST! And LITTLE! And there's nothing voters love more than giving awards to little fellas.

If, and that's unbelievably becoming a big if, New York wins the East, then he's a very good candidate for NL MVP. One of two on that team.

And in NO WAY the unquestioned MVP of the league. Frankly, I don't understand why it's even a discussion.

Oh, wait, actually I do. It's called FLAMEWAR!!!!!!eleven!!!!!!!11!!!!!!

Pretty much...though I like to think of it is beating Simon over the head with his own delusions.

 

[beefncheddar]

Jose Reyes is an excellent player. The third best at his position in his division, but an excellent player, nonetheless.

 

[mike311gd]

Jose Reyes is an excellent player. The third best at his position in his division, but an excellent player, nonetheless.

It's too bad Hanley Ramirez's team is dry-humping the Nationals for fifth place, otherwise he may have been in this discussion earlier.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

Guy,

Clearly you don't get it. He STEALS BASES! He's DISRUPTIVE! He plays in NEW YORK!

Hey BYH... now I'm a New York homer.

 

[Simon_Cowbell]

Reyes was expected to be the guy going into the season, and solidified the thought in everyone's mind with a great start. Since then, he has had a disappointing season. Look at those numbers & tell me where you see an MVP.

I guess you have to have a deeper understanding of the game to be able to grasp what sort of havoc he wreaks on the way pitchers go at batters when he is on base.

You have an irritating habit of assuming that anyone who disagrees with you doesn't understand what you're saying. How many MVPs did Vince Coleman win? How many would you have given him?

Reyes, by month:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
April 24 104 26 37 9 5 2 18 16 11 17 3 .356 .442 .596 1.038
May 27 112 16 30 5 2 0 7 14 19 12 3 .268 .349 .348 .697
June 27 106 13 35 2 1 2 9 14 14 10 5 .330 .405 .425 .829
July 27 117 21 31 9 2 3 7 9 9 11 3 .265 .317 .453 .770
August 27 120 24 32 3 1 2 7 13 10 22 3 .267 .338 .358 .697

I would expect him to be an MVP one day, he has that kind of talent, but he wasn't this year. Rickey HEnderson wasn't a consistent MVP candidate because of the intangibles of being a pest on the bases, it was because he was so good at so many things in addition to stealing bases. Other than walking more & more SBs (which are both important), he will have been better last year, and in balance his season this year will fall short of last year's barring a big finish. The fact that you see Castillo hit singles in the hole vacated by the 2B covering doesn't make Reyes the MVP and doesn't make your analysis sophisticated.

You do love your stats.

And woeful defensive liability Vince Coleman, hidden in left, comparable to Reyes?

You wouldn't know a sophisticated analysis if it was your mother.

 

[outofplace]

Reyes was expected to be the guy going into the season, and solidified the thought in everyone's mind with a great start. Since then, he has had a disappointing season. Look at those numbers & tell me where you see an MVP.

I guess you have to have a deeper understanding of the game to be able to grasp what sort of havoc he wreaks on the way pitchers go at batters when he is on base.

You have an irritating habit of assuming that anyone who disagrees with you doesn't understand what you're saying. How many MVPs did Vince Coleman win? How many would you have given him?

Reyes, by month:

G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
April 24 104 26 37 9 5 2 18 16 11 17 3 .356 .442 .596 1.038
May 27 112 16 30 5 2 0 7 14 19 12 3 .268 .349 .348 .697
June 27 106 13 35 2 1 2 9 14 14 10 5 .330 .405 .425 .829
July 27 117 21 31 9 2 3 7 9 9 11 3 .265 .317 .453 .770
August 27 120 24 32 3 1 2 7 13 10 22 3 .267 .338 .358 .697

I would expect him to be an MVP one day, he has that kind of talent, but he wasn't this year. Rickey HEnderson wasn't a consistent MVP candidate because of the intangibles of being a pest on the bases, it was because he was so good at so many things in addition to stealing bases. Other than walking more & more SBs (which are both important), he will have been better last year, and in balance his season this year will fall short of last year's barring a big finish. The fact that you see Castillo hit singles in the hole vacated by the 2B covering doesn't make Reyes the MVP and doesn't make your analysis sophisticated.

You do love your stats.

And woeful defensive liability Vince Coleman, hidden in left, comparable to Reyes?

You wouldn't know a sophisticated analysis if it was your mother.

Disruption on the basebaths trumps everything...except when it stops suiting your argument. 'Round and 'round we go.......

 

[beefncheddar]

Guy,

Clearly you don't get it. He STEALS BASES! He's DISRUPTIVE! He plays in NEW YORK!

Hey BYH... now I'm a New York homer.

Hey (insert name of other poster here) ... now he's ignoring the point.

You're so cute when you keep ridiculous arguments going for no apparent reason.

 

[broadway joe]

Jose Reyes Jimmy Rollins is an excellent player. The third best at his position in his division, but an excellent player, nonetheless.

Fixed.

 

[beefncheddar]

Jose Reyes Jimmy Rollins is an excellent player. The third best at his position in his division, but an excellent player, nonetheless.

Fixed.

1. Ramirez or Rollins
2. Ramirez or Rollins
3. Reyes

But thanks for playing our game.

 

[doubledown68]

Now that the Sox are firmly in KC's rear view mirror, next up is the Twinks. It's good that they won the opener.. however, the 9 runs scored means that Gil Meche will have roughly three hits of support before he departs after 6 2/3 innings this evening.

 

[beefncheddar]

Rollins with a leadoff double and comes around to score on two groundouts.

Woulda been more VALUABLE~!~ if he'd singled and stolen, though, I suppose.

 

[beefncheddar]

And the ace of next year's BEST YOUNG ROTATION EVAR is scuffling a little in Tampa.

Edit: Only ends up allowing one, but threw a lot of pitches.

 

[Flying Headbutt]

Jose Reyes Jimmy Rollins is an excellent player. The third best at his position in his division, but an excellent player, nonetheless.

Fixed.

1. Ramirez or Rollins
2. Ramirez or Rollins
3. Reyes

But thanks for playing our game.

If you're taking Rollins before Reyes, hopefully we're drafting fantasy style, where it goes 1-12 and then back 12-1. Because I'll happily take Reyes, and then with my next pick I'd make sure I just took two players better than you did in each round. Rollins is NOT better than Reyes.