Running 2010 PGA Thread

[playthrough]

Jason Sobel made a good point on his live BLOG!, that being that the reason that it's unfair isn't necessarily the 'everything sand is a bunker' rule, but that the only reason anyone saw it was because he was doing it in the last group on Sunday and was thus on TV.

Doesn't a rules official follow every group in a major? I've heard that argument before about TV putting contending players under more scrutiny, but in this case I'd hope that wouldn't be true. The first guy playing Sunday morning in a major should face the same scrutiny as the last guy.

I don't love the rule, but find me a golfer who loves all the rules. Bottom line for Johnson is that it was spelled out on paper in the locker room. If he didn't read it, the caddy should have, and when that tee shot was hit a mile offline their antenna should have gone up for paying really close attention to where that ball was. I know that's not easy in the final group of a major, but that's no excuse.

 

[Double Down]

Here is a question no one from the PGA or The Straits can answer: If a bunker isn't maintained like that one was, then were does it end and where does it begin? What if Johnson's drive had been in a sandy area but also one with grass? If a bunker doesn't have a lip, isn't raked and has fans standing in it, it should be classified as a waste area. The foundation for the entire course is sand. Let's say there is sand mixed with dirt on the tee box. Is that now a bunker?

I agree that Johnson should have asked, or clarified what was going on, but he's too damn quick of a player. He punished himself for essentially doing the opposite of what most professional golfers do. He got to his ball, took a look at the hole, got the yardage, took one calm practice swing and ripped it. Mickelson or Tiger would have been debating and talking that shot over for a good five minutes (it was, after all, for a major championship), which is part of reason why they're who they are, and Dustin Johnson is the kind of guy who tried to hit a shot left handed on the second hole of the final round of the U.S. Open (while leading!) and made an eight.

I still think the Straits is too gimmicky and shouldn't be hosting three PGA Championships spaced only five years apart. It's not that special of a course.

 

[playthrough]

I agree that Johnson should have asked, or clarified what was going on, but he's too damn quick of a player. He punished himself for essentially doing the opposite of what most professional golfers do. He got to his ball, took a look at the hole, got the yardage, took one calm practice swing and ripped it. Mickelson or Tiger would have been debating and talking that shot over for a good five minutes (it was, after all, for a major championship), which is part of reason why they're who they are, and Dustin Johnson is the kind of guy who tried to hit a shot left handed on the second hole of the final round of the U.S. Open (while leading!) and made an eight.

Good point. Golf does kind of need some new knuckleheads, if you think about it.

 

[2underpar]

Somebody enlighten me here: Don't they fine players who don't rake the bunkers. if that's the case, Johnson probably should be fined because his caddie didn't rake that bunker on 18.

 

[Smash Williams]

DD - Here's a partial answer to your question. This is attached to the local rules about the bunkers.

Note 2: Where necessary, blue dots define the margin of a bunker.

http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,2010877,00.html

That's what led to my question of were there blue dots around the area Johnson was in.

 

[CitizenTino]

Interesting point by AP golf writer Doug Ferguson on Twitter:

"What if marshals had done a better job clearing out fans to make it CLEAR to DJ he was in a bunker? Marshals a disgrace in so many ways here"

 

[MileHigh]

Brutal for Johnson. And the rule is a rule. But c'mon. He was so far right, you can't blame the guy for thinking he was in a spectator area. Especially where they weren't raked. As pointed out, if this were Tiger or Phil, this doesn't happen. And holy crap if he did make that putt on 18.

 

[spnited]

This is why golf is bull**** at times.
I saw none of this but reading about it leaves me wth one thought ... Johnson was screwed because golf officials are pompous assholes.

 

[MileHigh]

I was at a ballpark. How did it come up that it suddenly become a problem? Did Nantz or anyone else on CBS say something? Did the rules official see it (there were hundreds of fans around Johnson for the shot). Did someone in Peoria call CBS headquarters to call the penalty?

 

[spnited]

Good question milehigh. Who made the call and when?
Don't see that anywhere in the stuff I've read.

 

[Mark2010]

How the hell is there a bunker so far off the fairway that the gallery is walking through it? Was it marked as a bunker or just some random spot of grass mixed with sand (as you often get on links courses) that 1,000 people happened to have walked over?

When I saw it live, the thought he was in a bunker never entered my mind. In fact, when I heard there might have been a penalty, I assumed they were talking about his THIRD shot on the hole, the one from someplace over the back of the green.

Now, I feel bad for Johnson getting hosed, but there is no guarantee he would have won the playoff anyway. And, as someone else said, if he puts his drive anywhere remotely close to the fairway on No. 18, none of this happens.

One other footnote: Seeing what happened to Johnson (82 on Sunday) back at the US Open and what happened to Nick Watney (81) today makes it all the more impressive what Louis Oosthuizen did at St. Andrews under the pressure of leading a major championship for the final two rounds.

 

[Crash]

Also, not allowing people to practice swing in bunkers keeps up the inegrity of the course just like you are not allowed to use nothing other than a putter on the putting surface (I think that is correct).

False. You can use whatever club you please on a green.

 

[Shoeless Joe]

All golf rules should be amended with the following tag line - "... to gain a competitive advantage."

In this case, no advantage was gained.

For example, let's say it's a clearly defined green side bunker that a player is in. He steps into the bunker 25 feet away from his ball, trips on the rake and tumbles with his club hitting the sand. By the strict rules, that's a penalty. If you reach down and pick up a leaf laying in a bunker just because you're passing the time while someone else takes a shot, that's a penalty. The list is endless.

 

[mb]

I think the spirt of the rule for keeping your blade out of the sand is you can test the firmness of the sand with practice swings. That would give a player an unfair advantage. Also, not allowing people to practice swing in bunkers keeps up the inegrity of the course just like you are not allowed to use nothing other than a putter on the putting surface (I think that is correct).

The last thing I would want to hit into is a bunker filled with 15 divots because a guy in front of me was taking 10 practice swings - just like I would not want to see a divot on a green.

What also preserves the integrity of the course: Not allowing spectators to trample through "bunkers" for four days.

 

[JackReacher]

If it takes a rules official that damn long to explain why something IS a bunker....

 

[trifectarich]

All golf rules should be amended with the following tag line - "... to gain a competitive advantage."

In this case, no advantage was gained.

For example, let's say it's a clearly defined green side bunker that a player is in. He steps into the bunker 25 feet away from his ball, trips on the rake and tumbles with his club hitting the sand. By the strict rules, that's a penalty. If you reach down and pick up a leaf laying in a bunker just because you're passing the time while someone else takes a shot, that's a penalty. The list is endless.

The problem then becomes, it's impossible to define when a player gains an advantage and when he doesn't. Situations become even murkier. You can't write the rules and consider intent.

Next time an event is played at WS, the gallery ropes ought to be placed outside the areas where bunkers are located. If that means spectators are 100 yards from a fairway at some holes, so be it. To me, part of the injustice in all this is that a player can hit a ball in a bunker that is pristine and perfectly raked, then into one where kids have been building sand castles, and I find it somewhat troubling that the player is asked to treat both situations the same.

 

[93Devil]

So this is starting to sound like bull**** course more than bull**** rule?

And I love that you have to know the rules of golf very well to play the game. I thought you could not use a lofted club on the green, but I was wrong. That might have cost me in tournament play.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

I read today that this actually happened at the 2004 PGA, too, to Stuart Appleby. Instead of just posting a notice, why the hell didn't the tourney officials have a rules meeting for all golfers, like a NASCAR drivers meeting?

 

[JackReacher]

Who cares? Tiger wasn't involved!!!

:)

 

[doubledown68]

A couple problems here:
1. All I heard on TV was the course has "upwards" of 1,200 bunkers. No one ever gave an exact number, because no one ****ing knows. And if you don't know the number of bunkers on a course, then how the hell is anyone supposed to know what is and isn't a bunker?

2. From what I've heard, the place is built on sandy soil to begin with. So Ferguson was right... with that mash of people around him, how was he supposed to know if he was in a bunker or just a worn out patch of earth?

3. Someone on the radio made a valid point: Johnson can't have been the only one to make that mistake over the course of the tournament. No way, no how.

I don't think CBS had any idea what was going on until Johnson was walking off the green. There were no comments when he was standing over his last putt, anyway.

A confluence of factors combined to hose Johnson... bad tee shot, overly quirky course design, ****-poor crowd control. But, the dude took it better than I would have.