Running 2010 PGA Thread

[doubledown68]

I read today that this actually happened at the 2004 PGA, too, to Stuart Appleby. Instead of just posting a notice, why the hell didn't the tourney officials have a rules meeting for all golfers, like a NASCAR drivers meeting?

I think what happened to Appleby was that there was some discussion over what was a "waste" bunker as opposed to just a regular bunker. I think it cost him four shots, and was the impetus to the rule that every piece of sand on the course was to be treated like a normal bunker.

With two problems in two PGA Championships, I think it's clear that the issue isn't the players.

 

[trifectarich]

Maybe Herb Kohler or Pete Dye ought to swallow a little pride and make the decision to fill in half of what they're calling bunkers. It wouldn't change at all the competitive nature of the course.

 

[Double Down]

This never would have happened if he'd had the right caddy.

 

[Cosmo]

spnited -- to answer your question, the rules official approached Johnson after he made his putt on No. 18 and began talking to him.

 

[spnited]

spnited -- to answer your question, the rules official approached Johnson after he made his putt on No. 18 and began talking to him.

Why didn't he approach him as soon as he "grounded" the club.

And what the **** is the big deal about grounding a club if it doesn't improve the lie? Golf has more dumbass rles than any sport.
If I were Johnson I'd have been ripping everybody in sight for ****ing me out of a playoff...after the fact.

 

[Moderator1]

You can't ground your club because it's a way to test the consistency of the sand (or muck), etc. I understand the no grounding in a hazard rule.
What I don't understand is how the hell anyone with a brain can call that a bunker? It's a patch of sand where the gallery has been standing.

Yeah, I suppose you can make the point that a golfer should clarify any time he's on sand. But, again, look at it. That's a bunker?

 

[mb]

As bull**** as the entire situation is, did Johnson really admit to not reading the rules? Kinda hard to feel a whole lot of sympathy for the guy if he couldn't be bothered to do that.

 

[Captain_Kirk]

I must admit I wan not aware of the rule, although I've played golf for many years now. Obviously not competitively.

I'm with spnited--seems like a pretty dumb rule. You can "ground" your club in deep rough and take practice swings to get a feel for that, but not sand?

Competitive advantage at the professional level--no, it's about or should be about shot-making.

Horrible way for a major championship to be decided. I do wonder how it would have played out had Johnson hit the putt to win it. That would have really been an uncomfortable scene.

 

[playthrough]

A couple problems here:
1. All I heard on TV was the course has "upwards" of 1,200 bunkers. No one ever gave an exact number, because no one ****ing knows. And if you don't know the number of bunkers on a course, then how the hell is anyone supposed to know what is and isn't a bunker?

2. From what I've heard, the place is built on sandy soil to begin with. So Ferguson was right... with that mash of people around him, how was he supposed to know if he was in a bunker or just a worn out patch of earth?

3. Someone on the radio made a valid point: Johnson can't have been the only one to make that mistake over the course of the tournament. No way, no how.

I don't think CBS had any idea what was going on until Johnson was walking off the green. There were no comments when he was standing over his last putt, anyway.

A confluence of factors combined to hose Johnson... bad tee shot, overly quirky course design, ****-poor crowd control. But, the dude took it better than I would have.

A writer from Golf Digest counted them recently and I think the number was 967.

I'm fine with the design. Obviously there's a point to all that sand (to make $300-per-round amateurs sh*t themselves?), and they're not about to "fill them in" like some muni. But they need to make a distinction between a greenside trap and a hellhole 50 yards offline.

I read that there was a local rule in play during the event which allowed removal of loose pebbles from the bunkers. If that was the case (usually a big no-no in golf), then I'd have had no problem with them being declared waste areas and therefore legal to ground one's club in.

 

[TwoGloves]

David Feherty made a good point when he said he never grounds his club when he's not sure about the situtation. Bottom line is if Johnson didn't hit the ball so far off line he wouldn't have broken a rule, which he did. Stupid rule but it is a rule he should have known.

 

[expendable]

This never would have happened if he'd had the right caddy.

Awesome. I thought of Admiral Ackbar too. Though the folks at Augusta would insist he yell, "It's a bunker!"

 

[qtlaw]

Horrible way to end a great end to the tournament. I was rooting for Dustin or Bubba and that was just a bad taste. Its on Dustin and his caddy though. They were on notice and they had a rules official with the group and could have asked for a ruling. Looked like a trampled piece of ground though. If the PGA officials were on it all the way, sure wish the guy with the group would have stepped up. But probably wanted to stay out of it unless asked.

Bubba, great birdie to start and awful approach to 18, not even close. Too bad, what a funky swing and stance on the tee yet hits it 390, awesome to watch (someone tell him they stopped buttoning top button in 1999). Kaymar great, great birdie at 17 to get back into it.

 

[Knighthawk]

Even if Johnson had memorized the local rule, what would he have done differently? He said repeatedly that it never even crossed his mind that he was in a bunker. He was in a spectator area that had been trampled down, was flat and certainly didn't have any obvious lip between his ball and the hole.

The PGA can't even figure out how many bunkers are on the course, so they can't defend themselves by saying the players should be able to tell what is a bunker and what is a trampled area. It was a joke of a ruling.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

Johnson could not see much of the ground in question, as people were still standing on it. But I have seen many players ask officials for a ruling just to gain time to think over a big shot, and was, before the controversy, wondering if he might not have wanted to do that. Surely there are about 80 relevant rules governing hitting out of a gallery area.
PS: Remember the time the crowd at Phoenix moved a boulder that was in Tiger's line? That was perfectly legal, Johnson broke a rule. I believe the rules do not adequately account for the fact golf is not just a recreational sport, but a spectator sport, too.

 

[spnited]

Too many of golf's rules are arcane and archaic but the Pompous Golf Association is more concerned with its tradition and outdated concept of being a gentlemen's game to even think about whether it was fair to Johnson.

 

[playthrough]

Disagree, spnited. The rules are rules. The officials aren't trained to think about fairness, they're trained to follow the book.

Whether that official should have been a little more proactive in telling Johnson where he was at that moment, that's another thing. Not an unreasonable thought. But golf is an individual game and you're supposed to know the rules and play by them, or have the presence of mind to ask if you're unsure.

 

[Armchair_QB]

Also, not allowing people to practice swing in bunkers keeps up the inegrity of the course just like you are not allowed to use nothing other than a putter on the putting surface (I think that is correct).

False. You can use whatever club you please on a green.

Thought that was wrong too. I'm pretty sure Zach Johnson use a wedge on the 18th green yesterday.

 

[SoCalDude]

Also, not allowing people to practice swing in bunkers keeps up the inegrity of the course just like you are not allowed to use nothing other than a putter on the putting surface (I think that is correct).

False. You can use whatever club you please on a green.

Thought that was wrong too. I'm pretty sure Zach Johnson use a wedge on the 18th green yesterday.

The 6th green at Riviera Country Club has a sand trap right in the center of the green; looks like a big fire pit.
If they land on the wrong side of the green, pros can chip over the bunker. But they frown on the amateurs trying it.

 

[doubledown68]

Since just about everywhere at Whistling Straits seems to be in play, why not stake out chunks of the course to be designated as "waste" areas? Or have they tried that already.

It would be a unique situation, sure... but I can't recall of another course on tour or in the major championship rotation that presents the problems that Whistling Straits does.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

When TPC Sawgrass, another Dye course, was young, open to play on a (really cheap) mutual arrangement with the other golf resorts and private clubs in the area, as Dye and Co. were tweaking it for tournament play, half the damn course was a waste area. All those spectator mounds and tiered seating areas were bulldozed sand mounds, some six feet high. Tough to play from.
Your idea is a sensible one. If you are going to let spectators affect hazards and bunkers, there have to be course rules addressing that.
It's the golfer's duty to know the rules. It's the tournament's duty to make the rules as sensible and fair as possible. Both Johnson and the PGA failed.