Rooting for the Bad Guy

[outofplace]

What do you do if an entertainer whose work you enjoy turns out to be a terrible person? I'm including athletes under the heading of entertainers for the purpose of this discussion.

The brief Bill Cosby tangent on the thread about traffic deaths got me thinking about this. I was first introduced to Cosby through the Fat Albert cartoon. I enjoyed his standup and I watched the early seasons of the Cosby Show. Of course, we know a lot more about what he was doing in private than we did back then.

I'm not shocked by anyone turning out to be a bad person, but what do you do with that? Do you boycott their work? Do you appreciate it while still remembering what they did?

I had this discussion many times with my mother, who was a tremendous fan of Mel Gibson until his ugly side became public. She was bitterly disappointed and never wanted to see anything he was in again.

I also discussed this a while back on NFL related threads. Some folks here love to give me a hard time about the scumbags who have played for the Steelers. I've always said I expect every team in the league employs somebody that most of us would find reprehensible, but it is troubling. It does bother me when I see Ben Roethlisberger jerseys. I would never let my daughter wear one. The same is true for James Harrison. I still root for the team, but I do find it troubling that negative behavior away from the field is forgotten with both men, who are often praised for their leadership and determination.

For those that don't remember, Harrison has a long history of violent behavior, including an accusation that he assaulted a woman he was involved with his career with the Steelers. I believe the charges were dropped when she refused to cooperate. Roethlisberger was accused of rape twice. Though one accusation was largely discredited, the details around the other are disturbing no matter what you believe.

So I ask, can you separate these things? Can you enjoy an actor's movies even if he or she does something awful? Can you root for a sports team that employs one or more bad guys?

 

[da man]

Don't know what the consensus is, but I know I can separate them. I got mad when one of those nostalgia TV channels stopped showing I Spy when the Cosby thing came up (for the record, I have no idea if that's why they stopped, but they did).

 

[CD Boogie]

What do you do if an entertainer whose work you enjoy turns out to be a terrible person?

So I ask, can you separate these things?

In sports, I can separate them bc I root for laundry. I was a Steelers fan before Roethlisberger, and I'll be a Steelers fan after he leaves. That said, it can reach a breaking point, as it did with the Knicks, whom I no longer follow. Dolan is just the absolute worst and his stink infests the whole organization. And if my team employed Vontaze Burfict, I wouldn't be happy about it. Then again, when the Steelers signed Vick, I didn't stop watching them. Though I wish I had bc watching him play QB is downright painful.

Actors? It doesn't affect me one way or the other to know that Christian Bale or Russell Crowe are well-known penises. They're actors, they're not playing themselves. Tom Cruise being a whackjob Scientologist in no way impacts my enjoyment of his movies.

Comedians, writers and singers are a bit different bc the connection is more personal. I can't listen to Golddigger by Kanye without thinking of what an asshole he is. And as I said on the other thread, I can't read Jonathan Franzen the same way after he derided Philip Roth in an interview and then pleaded with my editor to take it out.

Obviously there's no foolproof reasoning around a topic like this. Likes and hates are very emotional.

 

[Baron Scicluna]

Judging by the thread title, I thought this was about rooting for Razor Ramon.

As for the actual question, at least in sports, I can separate the negative aspects and still root for the teams. I can't control who they employ and don't employ. I may not necessarily root for the player, but I can still root for the team.

The same with movies/TV shows. The first time I saw O.J. in one of the Naked Gun movies on cable, I was a little, "um, they have a guy who probably killed two people in this movie." But I still laughed and enjoyed the movie.

 

[ChrisLong]

Corey Perry is an asshole. But he's our asshole, so we like him.
Dustin Brown is an asshole. He's the Kings' asshole, so we hate him.

 

[QYFW]

Toy department.

 

[Big Circus]

In sports, I can separate them bc I root for laundry. I was a Steelers fan before Roethlisberger, and I'll be a Steelers fan after he leaves. That said, it can reach a breaking point, as it did with the Knicks, whom I no longer follow. Dolan is just the absolute worst and his stink infests the whole organization. And if my team employed Vontaze Burfict, I wouldn't be happy about it. Then again, when the Steelers signed Vick, I didn't stop watching them. Though I wish I had bc watching him play QB is downright painful.

Crossthreading this with the info on Liberty joining FBS, having hired the AD who oversaw the rape-fest at Baylor. Liberty being an hour down the road from UVA (to say nothing of other athletic ties between the schools), it got me thinking about how I would react if UVA had the bad sense to hire him. That is a situation, I think, where I would stop supporting the athletic department despite your "root for laundry" line (which I think is largely correct). I agree with your "breaking point" observation, but I also think it matters that Dolan is the owner of the Knicks and not just a temporary player. It's one thing to root for Roethlisberger when he's the quarterback - it would be another if he were in charge of the team.

 

[Jake_Taylor]

I had a hard time getting excited about the Chiefs having a good season with Tyreek Hill playing such a big role. But when I think about it, that's probably more about my growing weariness at the way the NFL handles everything. If the Royals had a bad guy on the roster I would still be interested in the team even if I preferred they get rid of the player.

At the college level, I feel like it's more personal. If my alma mater hired the Baylor AD or one of the Briles, I'd be furious, but also try to do something about it even if it was just writing letters and withholding donations. In that case, it isn't just teams I root for. It's a community I lived in and might send my kids to someday. It's on my resume when I apply for a job. I don't think I could just stop caring, but I might have to stop actively supporting.

 

[HanSenSE]

Went through the same thing with Barry Bonds in his last years with the Giants. As he got more of the cream and the clear, the bigger asshole he became. And worse, the Giants went along with him lock, stock and barrel. His last couple of season were All About Barry instead of putting a decent team out there. And people wonder why I don't want him coaching? You could say time heals all wounds, but like others have said about the Steelers, I was a fan before he signed on and remain one afterward.

 

[Vombatus]

Went through the same thing with Barry Bonds in his last years with the Giants. As he got more of the cream and the clear, the bigger asshole he became. And worse, the Giants went along with him lock, stock and barrel. His last couple of season were All About Barry instead of putting a decent team out there. And people wonder why I don't want him coaching? You could say time heals all wounds, but like others have said about the Steelers, I was a fan before he signed on and remain one afterward.

Were you able to notice his head getting bigger and bigger, or did that happen slowly enough that it made it hard to notice?

 

[BTExpress]

My sports heroes have been Hank Aaron, Johnny Unitas, Wilt Chamberlain, Mike Schmidt, Magic Johnson, Steffi Graf and Peyton Manning.

Not too many monsters there.

[/pleasenoPutinreferences]

 

[MisterCreosote]

A lot of people got very indignant with me when I refused to root for the Eagles after they signed Michael Vick.

It was then I decided I'd never again care so much about sports that I'd rationalize something like rooting for a complete scumbag.

 

[BTExpress]

Yeah, I admit I was kind of rooting for "ligaments turned into spaghetti" whenever Vick came back.

 

[dixiehack]

People will forgive almost any depraved act against another human faster than they will harming animals.

 

[BTExpress]

People will forgive almost any depraved act against another human faster than they will harming animals.

[/raises_hand]

I cannot, will not, read any story in my newspaper that talks about abusing animals. I turn the channel when one of those ASPCA commercials comes on showing dogs in cages or tied up.

The guy down the street who just killed a family of five? Yeah, I'll read that story. And probably watch the A&E documentary a few months later.

 

[spikechiquet]

Corey Perry is an asshole. But he's our asshole, so we like him.
Dustin Brown is an asshole. He's the Kings' asshole, so we hate him.

As a Red Wings fan, I hated Chelios and loved Probert, then it had to change.
But I always hated Tootoo

 

[JC]

Went through the same thing with Barry Bonds in his last years with the Giants. As he got more of the cream and the clear, the bigger asshole he became. And worse, the Giants went along with him lock, stock and barrel. His last couple of season were All About Barry instead of putting a decent team out there. And people wonder why I don't want him coaching? You could say time heals all wounds, but like others have said about the Steelers, I was a fan before he signed on and remain one afterward.

How did Bonds prevent them from putting a decent team around him?

 

[Bronco77]

It's funny and sad at the same time to see how someone can go from "good" to "bad" in a hurry in these toxic political times (this probably belongs in the Trump/politics thread, but I think it works here, too).

Example in my own family: Wife's brother is an evangelical Christian. After Stephen Curry discussed his strong faith a few years ago, he became a huge Curry fan.

Then, a few months before the election, Curry said he'd be voting for Hillary. He's since continued to jab Trump, most recently in the issue with the Under Armour CEO.

Now, in wife's brother's eyes, Curry is a "bum," a "loser" and (horror of horrors) a "fake Christian."

 

[outofplace]

People will forgive almost any depraved act against another human faster than they will harming animals.

This may be true, but there is also something sadistic about dog fighting. They were making living creatures tear each other apart for their amusement. That is why Vick's excuse that he grew up with it didn't wash. We shouldn't have to be taught better than that.

 

[QYFW]

I'd like to go on record as saying **** all athletes who kill stuff. Dogs, humans, whatever. Except spiders. I'm fine with my favorite players killing spiders.