Robinson Cano: HOF?

[swingline]

Gotcha.

 

[Songbird]

We need the Buffalo News to vote-shame us.

 

[Dick Whitman]

To the 15 with Hall of Fame hopes still alive, here are some currently qualified players who are almost certainly relegated to the Hall of Very Good:

Hudson
Hunter
Kinsler
Teixeira
Colon
Holliday
Crawford
Wainwright
Martinez
Rollins
Granderson
Peavy
Reyes
Zimmerman
Martinez
Zito
Ramirez
Phillips
Pierzynski
Markakis


Guys who still have a chance to get in some day, but don't break that top 15 above:
Adrian Gonzalez
David Wright
David Pedroia
Cole Hamels
Yadier Molina
James Shields
Adam Jones
Brian McCann
Prince Fielder
Francisco Rodriguez (K-Rod)
Jonathan Papelbon

 

[LongTimeListener]

Winning an MVP is an impossible standard. I think in the 80-year history of the award, both leagues, there have been somewhere between 100 and 120 of them. Probably 20 percent are no-chancer HOFers (Jeff Burroughs, Terry Pendleton, etc.). Cy Youngs even fewer, because they tend to get more multiple winners and even more flukey seasons from no-chance HOFers (hello, Lincecum!).

So it would be pretty darn difficult on an annual basis to put together an HOF class consisting only of players who have been MVPs and Cy Young winners.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Winning an MVP is an impossible standard. I think in the 80-year history of the award, both leagues, there have been somewhere between 100 and 120 of them. Probably 20 percent are no-chancer HOFers (Jeff Burroughs, Terry Pendleton, etc.). Cy Youngs even fewer, because they tend to get more multiple winners and even more flukey seasons from no-chance HOFers (hello, Lincecum!).

I wouldn't put Lincecum in that category. Probably someone like Willie Hernandez or Pete Vukovich.

Lincecum is in the Mike Scott-LaMarr Hoyt-J.R. Richards group of guys who were really great, but for a really short time.

 

[LongTimeListener]

OK.

Point being that once you eliminate the guys who definitely aren't Hall of Famers from the list of MVP/Cy Young winners, you'd be lucky to average two inductees a year if winning one is a requirement.

 

[Songbird]

Yadier is getting in, first ballot.

 

[outofplace]

Yadier is getting in, first ballot.

Care to actually support that assertion? Excellent defensive catcher and a big part of a lot of team success, but if he was done today? I'm not sure he's nearly the slam dunk you suggest.

 

[Songbird]

Yeah, he's been baseball's best catcher coming up on 8 years now.

Your attempt to throw "team success" into the mix as if it's some unimportant qualifier is poor.

 

[JC]

Yet Cano's not.

Team success should mean next to nothing in these debates.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Yeah, he's been baseball's best catcher coming up on 8 years now.

 

[Songbird]

And Buster will be a worthy candidate when he's done too.

 

[Songbird]

I'd still want Yadi catching over anyone else the last 8 years.

 

[LongTimeListener]

I guess if you're talking strictly defense you could make that case, although it's hard to evaluate and scouts seem to like Posey back there too ... but when you look at the total player it isn't even close.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Who is Mark Buehrle's catcher? No one steals on that guy.

Russell Martin: HOF?

 

[93Devil]

Mauer won the AL MVP a few years ago from the catcher's spot.

I could see Molina getting in, but he's not a slam dunk for best catcher of the past 10 years.

 

[outofplace]

Yeah, he's been baseball's best catcher coming up on 8 years now.

Your attempt to throw "team success" into the mix as if it's some unimportant qualifier is poor.

I did the exact opposite. I counted that as one of his advantages.

Poor is you suggesting that Molina has been baseball's best catcher.

 

[93Devil]

I think team ERA with them catching versus team ERA without them catching is very important.

I'm also tired of wins don't matter. They do. It's why you play the game.

If you are a **** in the clubhouse or don't sacrifice yourself at the plate when your team needs a run or any number of other things, that hurts your team and their ability to win.

 

[Songbird]

I did the exact opposite. I counted that as one of his advantages.

Poor is you suggesting that Molina has been baseball's best catcher.

I'll walk the first point back then re: misinterpreting the team success thing.

But the other thing is true: Yadi is the best catcher in baseball the last 8 years.

Posey is great but he's also played 1st base 111 games the last 3-plus years. Yadi has played 12 games at first in that span.

 

[JC]

I think team ERA with them catching versus team ERA without them catching is very important.

I'm also tired of wins don't matter. They do. It's why you play the game.

If you are a **** in the clubhouse or don't sacrifice yourself at the plate when your team needs a run or any number of other things, that hurts your team and their ability to win.

Least shocking post you will see here.

I'm sure he'd have the Mariners leading their division with his sacrifices. Teammates don't matter.