RIP Sen. Robert Byrd

[Drip]

Sigh. You're better than that. People said the earth was flat once upon a time. Then new facts emerged, and what they said once upon a time became outdated.

"Sigh" is ****ing right!
The man WAS a member of the KKK - more than 60 years ago, before the age of 30.
And he has been apologizing for it since the 1950s. For ****'s sake - the guy has been a damned U.S. Senator longer than many of you have been alive. He never killed anybody (Ted Kennedy). He never lied under oath (Pres. Clinton). He never dodged military service (Pres. G. Bush II). And outside of his Klan membership (which occurred in his 20s!) Byrd has never been involved in a single scandal (sexual, criminal or otherwise), unlike sooo many of his Congressional counterparts, including John McCain.
He lived a good life and was a tremendous servant to the state of West By God and the country, but let's trot his KKK membership from the 1940s and (sigh) flog (again) him as a racist.
Got anything more recent?
Anything?
'Cause this is (really) old news - as is the fact Byrd has been apologizing for his membership and the beliefs associated with that membership - since the 50s.

In 1997, he told an interviewer he would encourage young people to become involved in politics, but to "Be sure you avoid the Ku Klux Klan. Don't get that albatross around your neck. Once you've made that mistake, you inhibit your operations in the political arena."[14] In his latest autobiography, Byrd explained that he was a member because he "was sorely afflicted with tunnel vision—a jejune and immature outlook—seeing only what I wanted to see because I thought the Klan could provide an outlet for my talents and ambitions."[15] Byrd also said, in 2005,

“ I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times... and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened. ”
— Robert C. Byrd

In a March 4, 2001 interview with Tony Snow, Byrd said of race relations:
“ They're much, much better than they've ever been in my lifetime... I think we talk about race too much. I think those problems are largely behind us... I just think we talk so much about it that we help to create somewhat of an illusion. I think we try to have good will. My old mom told me, 'Robert, you can't go to heaven if you hate anybody.' We practice that. There are white ******s. I've seen a lot of white ******s in my time, if you want to use that word. We just need to work together to make our country a better country, and I'd just as soon quit talking about it so much.

A leopard doesn't change its spots and a Klansman always has a clean sheet. Yes he was a a great Senator but he was still a former member of the Klan. His allegiance to that gang can't be ignored. Sorry.

 

[Flying Headbutt]

Sigh. You're better than that. People said the earth was flat once upon a time. Then new facts emerged, and what they said once upon a time became outdated.

That is fine but it's also fair if looking back to view his entire body of work.

My frustration had more to do with your Iraq quotes. Lots of Democrats said one thing, and later changed their tune when better facts became available. You seem like you want to hold that against them. I'm not sure why other than that maybe you're cynical enough to think they'd have supported going to Iraq in 2003 if Al Gore was the one who was in the White House. Though then the counter becomes that I doubt we go to Iraq if Al Gore is in charge.

 

[YankeeFan]

In 1997, he told an interviewer he would encourage young people to become involved in politics, but to "Be sure you avoid the Ku Klux Klan. Don't get that albatross around your neck. Once you've made that mistake, you inhibit your operations in the political arena."

That's fine advice, but if Byrd had followed it, he'd have never been elected to public office in the first place.

The Klan was the base from which he launched his political career.

In the early 1940s, he organized a 150-member klavern, or chapter, of the Klan in Sophia, W.Va., and was chosen its leader at a meeting. After the meeting, Joel L. Baskin, the Klan’s grand dragon for the region, suggested that Mr. Byrd use his “talents for leadership” by going into politics.

“Suddenly, lights flashed in my mind!” Mr. Byrd later wrote. “Someone important had recognized my abilities.”

Mr. Byrd insisted that his klavern had never conducted white-supremacist marches or engaged in racial violence. He said in his autobiography that he had joined the Klan because he shared its anti-Communist creed and wanted to be associated with the leading people in his part of West Virginia. He conceded, however, that he also “reflected the fears and prejudices” of the time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/us/politics/29byrd.html?hp=&pagewanted=all

 

[finishthehat]

Sigh. You're better than that. People said the earth was flat once upon a time. Then new facts emerged, and what they said once upon a time became outdated.

That is fine but it's also fair if looking back to view his entire body of work.

My frustration had more to do with your Iraq quotes. Lots of Democrats said one thing, and later changed their tune when better facts became available. You seem like you want to hold that against them. I'm not sure why other than that maybe you're cynical enough to think they'd have supported going to Iraq in 2003 if Al Gore was the one who was in the White House. Though then the counter becomes that I doubt we go to Iraq if Al Gore is in charge.

You don't understand. Once Boom pulls out the Iraq quotes for the 1,494th time, it's QED.

Don't you remember Bill Clinton invading Iraq? Aren't you aware the Senate had its own intelligence agency and didn't have to depend on Bush's CIA?

 

[Drip]

A friend once said that Byrd would've been a great butler for James Bond. Why? Because Bond loves his martini shaken, but not stirred.

 

[zagoshe]

Sigh. You're better than that. People said the earth was flat once upon a time. Then new facts emerged, and what they said once upon a time became outdated.

"Sigh" is ****ing right!
The man WAS a member of the KKK - more than 60 years ago, before the age of 30.
And he has been apologizing for it since the 1950s. For ****'s sake - the guy has been a damned U.S. Senator longer than many of you have been alive. He never killed anybody (Ted Kennedy). He never lied under oath (Pres. Clinton). He never dodged military service (Pres. G. Bush II). And outside of his Klan membership (which occurred in his 20s!) Byrd has never been involved in a single scandal (sexual, criminal or otherwise), unlike sooo many of his Congressional counterparts, including John McCain.
He lived a good life and was a tremendous servant to the state of West By God and the country, but let's trot his KKK membership from the 1940s and (sigh) flog (again) him as a racist.
Got anything more recent?
Anything?
'Cause this is (really) old news - as is the fact Byrd has been apologizing for his membership and the beliefs associated with that membership - since the 50s.

In 1997, he told an interviewer he would encourage young people to become involved in politics, but to "Be sure you avoid the Ku Klux Klan. Don't get that albatross around your neck. Once you've made that mistake, you inhibit your operations in the political arena."[14] In his latest autobiography, Byrd explained that he was a member because he "was sorely afflicted with tunnel vision—a jejune and immature outlook—seeing only what I wanted to see because I thought the Klan could provide an outlet for my talents and ambitions."[15] Byrd also said, in 2005,

“ I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times... and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened. ”
— Robert C. Byrd

All of that is fine except, Democrats were never quite willing to give Strom Thurmond the benefit of the doubt about his history as a segregationist and for that matter, Jerry Falwell, either, despite both men renouncing their pasts as wrong.

Funny how that works.

As for Senator Byrd he represented everything that is wrong with our system as he never met a pork project he couldn't fund and stayed around mostly because of it -- hell he will probably win the next election for his seat.....

 

[beardpuller]

I really wanted to stay off this thread. I knew it was just gonna make me upset.
But what the hey, here are some facts: West Virginia, where some of my relatives live, is an incredibly poor state. Sen. Byrd did try to bring as much federal money into it as he could. I don't have a big problem with that. I don't see how many fair-minded people would.
Also, on the tiresome "you let HIM renounce his past but what about so-and-so," I would say that every situation obviously is different. I know a little bit about Strom Thurmond, actually met the man once. I respect the transformation he made. I also am aware that his experience with bigotry and really ugly racial politics ran much deeper than Sen Byrd's. Byrd never ran for president on a platform of segregation, while fathering a child with a black woman, for example. Nor did Strom apologize as completely and unequivocally as Sen. Byrd.
Anyhow, Sen. Byrd led a long and fascinating life. People who come on here just to spew vitriol at the time of his passing are pretty sad. Even sadder are people who see the thread, admit they know almost nothing about the man or his life, but still feel the need to render a verdict.
One thing I think the internet has removed is the way people used to feel a little embarrassed making sweeping declarations without knowing what the hell they were talking about.

 

[Armchair_QB]

Once a Klansman, always a Klansman.

 

[zagoshe]

I really wanted to stay off this thread. I knew it was just gonna make me upset.
But what the hey, here are some facts: West Virginia, where some of my relatives live, is an incredibly poor state. Sen. Byrd did try to bring as much federal money into it as he could. I don't have a big problem with that. I don't see how many fair-minded people would.
Also, on the tiresome "you let HIM renounce his past but what about so-and-so," I would say that every situation obviously is different. I know a little bit about Strom Thurmond, actually met the man once. I respect the transformation he made. I also am aware that his experience with bigotry and really ugly racial politics ran much deeper than Sen Byrd's. Byrd never ran for president on a platform of segregation, while fathering a child with a black woman, for example. Nor did Strom apologize as completely and unequivocally as Sen. Byrd.
Anyhow, Sen. Byrd led a long and fascinating life. People who come on here just to spew vitriol at the time of his passing are pretty sad. Even sadder are people who see the thread, admit they know almost nothing about the man or his life, but still feel the need to render a verdict.
One thing I think the internet has removed is the way people used to feel a little embarrassed making sweeping declarations without knowing what the hell they were talking about.

Yes, yes - because running a presidential campaign as a segregationist during a time when the country was, uh, pretty much still segregated is far more offensive than dressing up in a white sheet and running around with your buddies lynching people and burning crosses...... :

 

[YankeeFan]

I really wanted to stay off this thread. I knew it was just gonna make me upset.
But what the hey, here are some facts: West Virginia, where some of my relatives live, is an incredibly poor state. Sen. Byrd did try to bring as much federal money into it as he could. I don't have a big problem with that. I don't see how many fair-minded people would.
Also, on the tiresome "you let HIM renounce his past but what about so-and-so," I would say that every situation obviously is different. I know a little bit about Strom Thurmond, actually met the man once. I respect the transformation he made. I also am aware that his experience with bigotry and really ugly racial politics ran much deeper than Sen Byrd's. Byrd never ran for president on a platform of segregation, while fathering a child with a black woman, for example. Nor did Strom apologize as completely and unequivocally as Sen. Byrd.
Anyhow, Sen. Byrd led a long and fascinating life. People who come on here just to spew vitriol at the time of his passing are pretty sad. Even sadder are people who see the thread, admit they know almost nothing about the man or his life, but still feel the need to render a verdict.
One thing I think the internet has removed is the way people used to feel a little embarrassed making sweeping declarations without knowing what the hell they were talking about.

I have no interest in condemning Byrd.

He may have changed his stripes, repented, and begged his God for forgiveness.

And I don't think it should be surprising that someone who was born 92 years ago would have different views on race than those that prevail today -- especially in his youth.

But Zag is right, too many people here decide who they want to believe has reformed based on whether they have a D or an R after their name.

Thurmond & Helms were condemned here when both showed as much of a turn around on their racial beliefs as Byrd.

Also, can we please state the facts when discussing Byrd? He didn't join the Klan. this wasn't some passive action.
He founded the local chapter. It was the base for his political career.

In the early 1940s, a politically ambitious butcher from West Virginia named Bob Byrd recruited 150 of his friends and associates to form a chapter of the Ku Klux Klan. After Byrd had collected the $10 joining fee and $3 charge for a robe and hood from every applicant, the "Grand Dragon" for the mid-Atlantic states came down to tiny Crab Orchard, W.Va., to officially organize the chapter.

As Byrd recalls now, the Klan official, Joel L. Baskin of Arlington, Va., was so impressed with the young Byrd's organizational skills that he urged him to go into politics. "The country needs young men like you in the leadership of the nation," Baskin said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/18/AR2005061801105.html

And finally, while West Virginia may have been, and may still be poor, not all of us think that justifies a Robin Hood approach of legislating in which Byrd appropriated Federal money and sent it to his home state.

Some find that worthy of criticism, not praise.

And, despite Byrd's efforts, it's my understanding that West Virginia remains a relatively poor State today.

 

[zagoshe]

Yes - I forgot about that part YF -- I had the same disdain for John Murtha and his pork and he is a guy who brought that federal money to my state.

 

[Drip]

Once a Klansman, always a Klansman.

Hate to say it but I actually agree with Armchair.

 

[Armchair_QB]

I really wanted to stay off this thread. I knew it was just gonna make me upset.
But what the hey, here are some facts: West Virginia, where some of my relatives live, is an incredibly poor state. Sen. Byrd did try to bring as much federal money into it as he could. I don't have a big problem with that. I don't see how many fair-minded people would.
Also, on the tiresome "you let HIM renounce his past but what about so-and-so," I would say that every situation obviously is different. I know a little bit about Strom Thurmond, actually met the man once. I respect the transformation he made. I also am aware that his experience with bigotry and really ugly racial politics ran much deeper than Sen Byrd's. Byrd never ran for president on a platform of segregation, while fathering a child with a black woman, for example. Nor did Strom apologize as completely and unequivocally as Sen. Byrd.
Anyhow, Sen. Byrd led a long and fascinating life. People who come on here just to spew vitriol at the time of his passing are pretty sad. Even sadder are people who see the thread, admit they know almost nothing about the man or his life, but still feel the need to render a verdict.
One thing I think the internet has removed is the way people used to feel a little embarrassed making sweeping declarations without knowing what the hell they were talking about.

I have no interest in condemning Byrd.

He may have changed his stripes, repented, and begged his God for forgiveness.

And I don't think it should be surprising that someone who was born 92 years ago would have different views on race than those that prevail today -- especially in his youth.

But Zag is right, too many people here decide who they want to believe has reformed based on whether they have a D or an R after their name.

Thurman & Helms were condemned here when both showed as much of a turn around on their racial beliefs as Byrd.

Also, can we please state the facts when discussing Byrd? He didn't join the Klan. this wasn't some passive action.
He founded the local chapter. It was the base for his political career.

In the early 1940s, a politically ambitious butcher from West Virginia named Bob Byrd recruited 150 of his friends and associates to form a chapter of the Ku Klux Klan. After Byrd had collected the $10 joining fee and $3 charge for a robe and hood from every applicant, the "Grand Dragon" for the mid-Atlantic states came down to tiny Crab Orchard, W.Va., to officially organize the chapter.

As Byrd recalls now, the Klan official, Joel L. Baskin of Arlington, Va., was so impressed with the young Byrd's organizational skills that he urged him to go into politics. "The country needs young men like you in the leadership of the nation," Baskin said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/18/AR2005061801105.html

And finally, while West Virginia may have been, and may still be poor, not all of us think that justifies a Robin Hood approach of legislating in which Byrd appropriated Federal money and sent it to his home state.

Some find that worthy of criticism, not praise.

And, despite Byrd's efforts, it's my understanding that West Virginia remains a relatively poor State today.

Wow, I didn't realize he FOUNDED a Klan chapter. That's even worse than being a member.

 

[Drip]

I really wanted to stay off this thread. I knew it was just gonna make me upset.
But what the hey, here are some facts: West Virginia, where some of my relatives live, is an incredibly poor state. Sen. Byrd did try to bring as much federal money into it as he could. I don't have a big problem with that. I don't see how many fair-minded people would.
Also, on the tiresome "you let HIM renounce his past but what about so-and-so," I would say that every situation obviously is different. I know a little bit about Strom Thurmond, actually met the man once. I respect the transformation he made. I also am aware that his experience with bigotry and really ugly racial politics ran much deeper than Sen Byrd's. Byrd never ran for president on a platform of segregation, while fathering a child with a black woman, for example. Nor did Strom apologize as completely and unequivocally as Sen. Byrd.
Anyhow, Sen. Byrd led a long and fascinating life. People who come on here just to spew vitriol at the time of his passing are pretty sad. Even sadder are people who see the thread, admit they know almost nothing about the man or his life, but still feel the need to render a verdict.
One thing I think the internet has removed is the way people used to feel a little embarrassed making sweeping declarations without knowing what the hell they were talking about.

I have no interest in condemning Byrd.

He may have changed his stripes, repented, and begged his God for forgiveness.

And I don't think it should be surprising that someone who was born 92 years ago would have different views on race than those that prevail today -- especially in his youth.

But Zag is right, too many people here decide who they want to believe has reformed based on whether they have a D or an R after their name.

Thurman & Helms were condemned here when both showed as much of a turn around on their racial beliefs as Byrd.

Also, can we please state the facts when discussing Byrd? He didn't join the Klan. this wasn't some passive action.
He founded the local chapter. It was the base for his political career.

In the early 1940s, a politically ambitious butcher from West Virginia named Bob Byrd recruited 150 of his friends and associates to form a chapter of the Ku Klux Klan. After Byrd had collected the $10 joining fee and $3 charge for a robe and hood from every applicant, the "Grand Dragon" for the mid-Atlantic states came down to tiny Crab Orchard, W.Va., to officially organize the chapter.

As Byrd recalls now, the Klan official, Joel L. Baskin of Arlington, Va., was so impressed with the young Byrd's organizational skills that he urged him to go into politics. "The country needs young men like you in the leadership of the nation," Baskin said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/18/AR2005061801105.html

And finally, while West Virginia may have been, and may still be poor, not all of us think that justifies a Robin Hood approach of legislating in which Byrd appropriated Federal money and sent it to his home state.

Some find that worthy of criticism, not praise.

And, despite Byrd's efforts, it's my understanding that West Virginia remains a relatively poor State today.

Wow, I didn't realize he FOUNDED a Klan chapter. That's even worse than being a member.

Damn.

 

[zagoshe]

Wow, I didn't realize he FOUNDED a Klan chapter. That's even worse than being a member.

Well it is Ok because he was a Democrat so he clearly became more enlightened......

 

[Boom_70]

Wow, I didn't realize he FOUNDED a Klan chapter. That's even worse than being a member.

Well it is Ok because he was a Democrat so he clearly became more enlightened......

But not enough to support The Civil Rights Act of 1964. He lead Southern Democrats to 2nd longest filibuster in history against the bill.

 

[Drip]

Wow, I didn't realize he FOUNDED a Klan chapter. That's even worse than being a member.

Well it is Ok because he was a Democrat so he clearly became more enlightened......

But not enough to support The Civil Rights Act of 1964. He lead Southern Democrats to 2nd longest filibuster in history against the bill.

Shaken, but not stirred the man said.

 

[WolvEagle]

KKK chapter founder.

'Nuff said.

 

[Drip]

KKK chapter founder.

'Nuff said.

Will they bury him with his hood on?

 

[sportsguydave]

Once a Klansman, always a Klansman.

And once again, we see why the politics board went away.

Whatever Byrd did in his long life is now between him and God. But this kind of crap is just ignorant. There have been ample quotes over the years from Byrd repudiating his racist past ... and yeah, he was a despicable racist at one point. Quibble all you want with the sincerity of his apologies. But "once a Klansman, always a Klansman?" Lame.

Do we all really want to be remembered only for our worst moments?