RIP Ellen Page...

[SoloFlyer]

I'm not agreeing with the approach Texas took. I'm saying, in the case of transgender athletes, perhaps the compromise that would make sense is hormone testing. The details would have to be worked out by the governing athletic associations. It's not perfect, but we shouldn't allow perfect to be the enemy of acceptable, to bend a phrase.

Why are you even bothering to ask about the process? You refuse to accept anything other than letting anybody compete with whichever gender they choose.

Also, aren't there already instances of very strong girls being accused of being boys? Wouldn't a set, science-based process help rather than hurt in those instances?

Seriously, what makes you think approaching this the way the NRA would is a good idea?

I'm not against hormone testing for adults. I'm against it for minors. That's a distinction that is very important.

There are absolutely instances of girls being accused of being boys. It's traumatizing, even after they've provided documentation. There will remain a subset of people who reject the results and cause problems. Maybe not in every case, but in enough. And if you don't believe me, just look at the state of the world right now where people still believe that Obama wasn't born in the US and that the election was fraudulent. People are vindictive and selfish, and I don't have the faith that they'll accept test results.

The process is important because, as I've repeated multiple times, each state has different guidelines for transgender participation in youth/high school sports. Some, in fact, have no guidelines. Others have legislation against it. Others are inclusive. So, in order to implement hormone testing, you would 1) Need to pass federal law granting permission to play based on test results, 2) Ensure that federal law overwrites existing state law and be prepared for any legal objections to that, 3) Set up a consistent baseline of testing, 4) Set up an appeals process, and much more.

None of that is something that can happen overnight. The NCAA and IOC can test because they are the overseeing bodies for their organizations. College conferences have to follow the NCAA's regulations. The USOC has to abide by the IOC regulations. There are processes put in place.

But when we're talking about youth/high school sports, we're talking about 50 states with 50 different sports associations, plus private schools, private clubs, private travel teams, et al. Do AAU teams fall under the same guidance as public high schools? What about a community wrestling club? I legitimately don't know the answer to that.

But here's the biggest thing about hormone testing for youth sports: Not every transgender student athlete has begun hormone therapy. Some do not have medical access and some do not have the support of their families.

Requiring hormone testing would block those athletes from participating with their peers. I think it is absolutely wrong to tell someone they cannot participate in a sport simply because they do not have medical access to treatment.

 

[outofplace]

I'm not against hormone testing for adults. I'm against it for minors. That's a distinction that is very important.

There are absolutely instances of girls being accused of being boys. It's traumatizing, even after they've provided documentation. There will remain a subset of people who reject the results and cause problems. Maybe not in every case, but in enough. And if you don't believe me, just look at the state of the world right now where people still believe that Obama wasn't born in the US and that the election was fraudulent. People are vindictive and selfish, and I don't have the faith that they'll accept test results.

The process is important because, as I've repeated multiple times, each state has different guidelines for transgender participation in youth/high school sports. Some, in fact, have no guidelines. Others have legislation against it. Others are inclusive. So, in order to implement hormone testing, you would 1) Need to pass federal law granting permission to play based on test results, 2) Ensure that federal law overwrites existing state law and be prepared for any legal objections to that, 3) Set up a consistent baseline of testing, 4) Set up an appeals process, and much more.

None of that is something that can happen overnight. The NCAA and IOC can test because they are the overseeing bodies for their organizations. College conferences have to follow the NCAA's regulations. The USOC has to abide by the IOC regulations. There are processes put in place.

But when we're talking about youth/high school sports, we're talking about 50 states with 50 different sports associations, plus private schools, private clubs, private travel teams, et al. Do AAU teams fall under the same guidance as public high schools? What about a community wrestling club? I legitimately don't know the answer to that.

But here's the biggest thing about hormone testing for youth sports: Not every transgender student athlete has begun hormone therapy. Some do not have medical access and some do not have the support of their families.

Requiring hormone testing would block those athletes from participating with their peers. I think it is absolutely wrong to tell someone they cannot participate in a sport simply because they do not have medical access to treatment.

This seems more like something that is going to be done at the state level. Just because you don't like what the states are doing doesn't change that. For the record, I don't like what some states are doing, either.

Yes, hormone testing would bar students whose bodies are male from competing with cisgender females. Physically, those are not their peers.

Best of luck selling your approach with no compromise. Wake the rest of us when you are ready to deal with reality.

 

[Neutral Corner]

I'm waiting to see which is the first P5 school to recruit a power hitting trans woman. It may sound culturally unlikely but my money is still on the SEC.

 

[DanOregon]

I for one will miss the Ellen show. It started out nice and well meaning, but just went on for too long and wore out its welcome.