MVPs

[Riptide]

If someone wins a triple crown, then by definition they were the best offensive player and, thus, the most valuable offensive player of the year.

By whose definition? You can't make the point that teammates' quality shouldn't matter in judging individuals and then say leading the league in RBI is one-third of being the best and most valuable offensive player.

In theory, it's easy to imagine a guy winning the Triple Crown who rarely walks and is very slow. That guy might not even lead the league in on-base or slugging percentages.

Fair point.

FYI, Cabrera is third in the AL in on-base percentage and first in slugging and OPS. Trout is fourth in OBP and slugging, second in OPS.

I've brought this up before and I'm wondering if it is valid. Does Cabrera get credit for switching positions to help the team? He is actually a better first baseman than Prince Fielder, but it helped the Tigers to have Cabrera make the move back to third base. Even if he isn't very good over there, I think making the switch to help the team offensively should be considered as a positive.

Reinforces the idea of being Most VALUABLE, too.

 

[buckweaver]

I've brought this up before and I'm wondering if it is valid. Does Cabrera get credit for switching positions to help the team? He is actually a better first baseman than Prince Fielder, but it helped the Tigers to have Cabrera make the move back to third base. Even if he isn't very good over there, I think making the switch to help the team offensively should be considered as a positive.

Morosi brought this up the other day, too. This logic presumes that Cabrera's switch freed up a spot for Fielder to get more at-bats. But Fielder was always going to play, so it really didn't matter if Cabrera moved to third or DH because both of them were going to be in the lineup regardless.

Cabrera was originally offered a chance to DH full-time, and he declined. His move to third meant Delmon Young became the DH instead of the starting left fielder. (It also meant Brandon Inge was expendable.) After all the shuffling was done, Cabrera's switch actually freed up a spot for Andy Dirks or Quintin Berry to get more at-bats as the primary left fielder. That's not a whole lot of extra offense.

If Cabrera had done what the team had asked, the Tigers would have had this lineup:

1B Fielder
DH Cabrera
3B Inge
LF Young

But because Cabrera made the switch, they ended up with this lineup:

1B Fielder
DH Young
3B Cabrera
LF Dirks/Berry

The infield defense is provably, demonstrably worse (though the outfield defense is better without Young there), and the offense isn't a whole lot better than it would have been in the first place (assuming Inge stays on the team and/or stays healthy, which isn't a given.)

So you're really looking at Inge vs. Dirks/Berry. Did that improve the team or ... did it make the Tigers worse? Should Cabrera get credit for that? Is there any credit to be given?

I sure don't think it's obvious that Cabrera's switch helped the team, overall. And I think a case could be made that it actually made the Tigers worse. Doesn't help his MVP case, that's for sure.

 

[Versatile]

Andy Dirks has been exceptional this year. He's easily the team's fourth-best hitter.

 

[Riptide]

Who wants to be a DH when you're in your prime?

[ "Don't **** with happy." -- Elliotte. ]

 

[outofplace]

Andy Dirks has been exceptional this year. He's easily the team's fourth-best hitter.

Also, isn't Delmon Young a lousy defensive outfielder?

 

[Versatile]

Andy Dirks has been exceptional this year. He's easily the team's fourth-best hitter.

Also, isn't Delmon Young a lousy defensive outfielder?

buckweaver mentioned that.

 

[buckweaver]

Andy Dirks has been exceptional this year. He's easily the team's fourth-best hitter.

Bring back Larry Herndon!

 

[Versatile]

Andy Dirks has been exceptional this year. He's easily the team's fourth-best hitter.

Bring back Larry Herndon!

Whither Bobby Higginson?

 

[outofplace]

Andy Dirks has been exceptional this year. He's easily the team's fourth-best hitter.

Also, isn't Delmon Young a lousy defensive outfielder?

buckweaver mentioned that.

Ah, I missed it. So he did.

 

[Armchair_QB]

Posey might very well win the NL MVP, he's had a helluva year, he plays an important position, and the Giants are a sure playoff team.

But I sleep well at night knowing the Brewers have the best player in baseball.

Shame he's not clean.

 

[outofplace]

Posey might very well win the NL MVP, he's had a helluva year, he plays an important position, and the Giants are a sure playoff team.

But I sleep well at night knowing the Brewers have the best player in baseball.

Shame he's not clean.

Shame you say that about everybody who dares to be good for an NL Central team other than the Cubs.

 

[printit]

If someone wins a triple crown, then by definition they were the best offensive player and, thus, the most valuable offensive player of the year.

By whose definition? You can't make the point that teammates' quality shouldn't matter in judging individuals and then say leading the league in RBI is one-third of being the best and most valuable offensive player.

In theory, it's easy to imagine a guy winning the Triple Crown who rarely walks and is very slow. That guy might not even lead the league in on-base or slugging percentages.

Good point. In the rush to make my bigger point I left a couple of huge holes in the smaller one. If someone is the best offensive player, they should not lose to someone who was an inferior offensive player just because the inferior offensive player's team made the postseason. If inferior offensive player made up for the gap with his defense, fine.
And, while I agree that there are technically scenarios where the triple crown winner is not the best offensive player, I don't see that this year.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

I've brought this up before and I'm wondering if it is valid. Does Cabrera get credit for switching positions to help the team? He is actually a better first baseman than Prince Fielder, but it helped the Tigers to have Cabrera make the move back to third base. Even if he isn't very good over there, I think making the switch to help the team offensively should be considered as a positive.

ARod for MVP!

 

[Knighthawk]

Cabrera's having a better year as a hitter, but Trout's outstanding. Trout is, obviously, a much better defensive player and baserunner. If the award is Player of the Year, I vote for Trout. However, I think Cabrera's monster finish, along with the fact that Trout didn't play in April, makes MVP a lot closer.

 

[Starman]

Andy Dirks has been exceptional this year. He's easily the team's fourth-best hitter.

Also, isn't Delmon Young a lousy defensive outfielder?

No, he'd have to improve about 100,000% to get up to "lousy."

 

[Mizzougrad96]

Does Cabrera have to win the triple crown to be guaranteed of winning the MVP this year or might that not even be enough?

 

[Riptide]

Shame if he loses it now. Just being so close should get him a lot of votes. And deservedly so. How often does anyone come that close, much less win it? Answer: Close to never.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Shame if he loses it now. Just being so close should get him a lot of votes. And deservedly so. How often does anyone come that close, much less win it? Answer: Close to never.

You might want to look up Matt Kemp's 2011 stats.

 

[Riptide]

Shame if he loses it now. Just being so close should get him a lot of votes. And deservedly so. How often does anyone come that close, much less win it? Answer: Close to never.

You might want to look up Matt Kemp's 2011 stats.

Yeah, I know. But still not often since 1967.

 

[LongTimeListener]

The only other one I can recall is Sheffield in '92 -- he won the batting title and missed by two HRs and nine RBIs -- and he finished third in the voting with only two first-place votes.