Mark Buerhle > Jack Morris?

[Dick Whitman]

Currently 7-1, 2.11 ERA, age 35 season.

Better at ERA and ERA+ (3.81 to 3.90 and 118 to 105).

Will eventually close in on innings (Morris currently leads approx. 3,800 to 2,900).

Better at no-hitters (2 to 1).

Better at perfect games (1 to 0).

Both with classic postseason performances (Morris Game 7, Buerhle two wins and a save of WS-clinching game in 2005 postseason).

Better at leading the league in IP (2 to 1).

Wins TDB (Morris 254, Buerhle 193).

Better at consecutive years of 200-plus IP (13 to 7).


Mark Buerhle > Jack Morris?

 

[LongTimeListener]

Both with classic postseason performances

(Morris Game 7,

Yes.

Buerhle two wins and a save of WS-clinching game in 2005 postseason)

No.

He might overall be better, I don't know, but you're trying too hard.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Both with classic postseason performances

(Morris Game 7,

Yes.

Buerhle two wins and a save of WS-clinching game in 2005 postseason)

No.

He might overall be better, I don't know, but you're trying too hard.

I would give Morris the postseason edge - more starts, two WS to one for Buerhle. Game 7.

Just wanted to point out that Buerhle did have a strong postseason, too.

I'm surprised at how close they are.

And I'd nonetheless be surprised if Buerhle stayed on the ballot for more than two years.

 

[Bob Cook]

I like Buehrle a lot, but he's not even in the Hall of Very Good. However, he's certainly a pitcher you like to have around, because he consistently pitches 200-230 innings a year, doesn't walk a lot of people, and has an ERA of between 3.50 and 4.20. It's amazing how consistent his numbers are, year-to-year.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/buehrma01.shtml

He's also great if you don't want to be at the ballpark all night. I liked Richard Roeper's line about Buehrle pitching like "a man who's late for dinner."

 

[Dick Whitman]

I like Buehrle a lot, but he's not even in the Hall of Very Good. However, he's certainly a pitcher you like to have around, because he consistently pitches 200-230 innings a year, doesn't walk a lot of people, and has an ERA of between 3.50 and 4.20. It's amazing how consistent his numbers are, year-to-year.

Sounds a lot like Jack Morris.

 

[The Big Ragu]

I like Buehrle a lot, but he's not even in the Hall of Very Good. However, he's certainly a pitcher you like to have around, because he consistently pitches 200-230 innings a year, doesn't walk a lot of people, and has an ERA of between 3.50 and 4.20. It's amazing how consistent his numbers are, year-to-year.

Sounds a lot like Jack Morris.

Mark Buerhle is a workhorse and a fine pitcher, but he has never been an ace.

Jack Morris was.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I like Buehrle a lot, but he's not even in the Hall of Very Good. However, he's certainly a pitcher you like to have around, because he consistently pitches 200-230 innings a year, doesn't walk a lot of people, and has an ERA of between 3.50 and 4.20. It's amazing how consistent his numbers are, year-to-year.

Sounds a lot like Jack Morris.

Mark Buerhle is a workhorse and a fine pitcher, but he has never been an ace.

Jack Morris was.

You would write a polemic if someone made this kind of argument in favor of one stock over another.

 

[The Big Ragu]

I like Buehrle a lot, but he's not even in the Hall of Very Good. However, he's certainly a pitcher you like to have around, because he consistently pitches 200-230 innings a year, doesn't walk a lot of people, and has an ERA of between 3.50 and 4.20. It's amazing how consistent his numbers are, year-to-year.

Sounds a lot like Jack Morris.

Mark Buerhle is a workhorse and a fine pitcher, but he has never been an ace.

Jack Morris was.

You would write a polemic if someone made this kind of argument in favor of one stock over another.

Thanks for that apples and oranges.

People buy stocks based on their assumptions about a company's future performance. I already know what Jack Morris and Mark Buerhle have done.

Apples and oranges.

To the extent that I can use the present to guess about a company's future performance, I can quantify a stock's present value on its earnings and revenues relative to its price. It's clean, measurable and unambiguous. No guess work. No making up a gazillion stats. You have earnings. And the price you have to pay for those earnings.

It's completely unlike comparing players for the Hall of Fame, which is subjective.

And subjectively, people who watched Jack Morris during his day clearly thought more of him relative to his peers than people think of Mark Buerhle today. Morris got MVP votes 5 times. Cy Young votes 7 times. Buehrle has never gotten an MVP vote and has placed in the Cy Young voting once.

People considered Morris an ace.

 

[Dick Whitman]

I think Twitter is a better stock than Facebook.

It feels like an ace stock to me when I visit the sites.

 

[JC]

People who cover the game are much smarter now.

 

[MisterCreosote]

Mark Buerhle is a great pitcher and an even better hurler.

 

[Big Circus]

Mark Buerhle is a great pitcher and an even better hurler.

An even better Hurler:

 

[Bob Cook]

The status of "ace" is subjective with Morris and Buehrle. Morris was generally considered an "ace" because he was the top starter, or deemed to be. Often Buehrle was a top starter for the White Sox, but was never an "ace" mainly because he didn't throw 95 mph fastballs.

Also, Buehrle never had eye-popping numbers. He never got 20 wins, he never won a Cy Young, and he most definitely never came close to leading the league in strikeouts. The term "ace" is usually reserved for someone overpowering. Buehrle was merely frustrating (to hitters if his curve was down, to his own teammates and fans if it stayed up.)

 

[Batman]

I would give Morris the postseason edge - more starts, two WS to one for Buerhle. Game 7.

Morris actually has four World Series rings, with three different teams -- Detroit (1984), Minnesota (1991) and Toronto (1992 and '93, although he stunk in the regular season in '93 and didn't pitch at all in the postseason).

 

[The Big Ragu]

The status of "ace" is subjective with Morris and Buehrle. Morris was generally considered an "ace" because he was the top starter, or deemed to be. Often Buehrle was a top starter for the White Sox, but was never an "ace" mainly because he didn't throw 95 mph fastballs.

Also, Buehrle never had eye-popping numbers. He never got 20 wins, he never won a Cy Young, and he most definitely never came close to leading the league in strikeouts. The term "ace" is usually reserved for someone overpowering. Buehrle was merely frustrating (to hitters if his curve was down, to his own teammates and fans if it stayed up.)

That is fair, although I think of it that way more because of Buehrle's junk than Morris' stuff.

Take away the word ace, and you still have Morris arguably (but no stretch to make the argument) having been the best pitcher of the 1980s. You can't make any kind of serious argument like that with regard to Mark Buehrle in the 2000s.

And again, Morris was up there in the MVP voting 5 times. Got Cy Young votes 7 times. Buehrle got Cy Young votes the year the White Sox made the series.

Compare each of them to their eras, and I don't see how anyone who watched baseball during these times could argue that Mark Buehrle to the 2000s was anything near Jack Morris to the 1980s. Regardless of what they think of Morris for the HOF.

 

[I Should Coco]

I've always been a huge Buehrle fan, too ... but I compare him more to Jamie Moyer than Jack Morris.

Moyer had a couple 20-win seasons, a very strong postseason in 2001 with Seattle, and threw more than 4,000 innings.

That's a very good career, but not HOF.

Buehrle is a very similar type of pitcher, albeit with a better career ERA, a perfect game and no hitter.

 

[Dick Whitman]

Take away the word ace, and you still have Morris arguably (but no stretch to make the argument) having been the best pitcher of the 1980s.

No, you can't.

 

[Dick Whitman]

The status of "ace" is subjective with Morris and Buehrle. Morris was generally considered an "ace" because he was the top starter, or deemed to be. Often Buehrle was a top starter for the White Sox, but was never an "ace" mainly because he didn't throw 95 mph fastballs.

Also, Buehrle never had eye-popping numbers. He never got 20 wins, he never won a Cy Young, and he most definitely never came close to leading the league in strikeouts. The term "ace" is usually reserved for someone overpowering. Buehrle was merely frustrating (to hitters if his curve was down, to his own teammates and fans if it stayed up.)

That is fair, although I think of it that way more because of Buehrle's junk than Morris' stuff.

Take away the word ace, and you still have Morris arguably (but no stretch to make the argument) having been the best pitcher of the 1980s. You can't make any kind of serious argument like that with regard to Mark Buehrle in the 2000s.

And again, Morris was up there in the MVP voting 5 times. Got Cy Young votes 7 times. Buehrle got Cy Young votes the year the White Sox made the series.

Compare each of them to their eras, and I don't see how anyone who watched baseball during these times could argue that Mark Buehrle to the 2000s was anything near Jack Morris to the 1980s. Regardless of what they think of Morris for the HOF.

I can't see how anyone who would visit both Twitter and Facebook would think that Facebook's stock price would be higher.

 

[The Big Ragu]

Take away the word ace, and you still have Morris arguably (but no stretch to make the argument) having been the best pitcher of the 1980s.

No, you can't.

No I can't what?

 

[The Big Ragu]

The status of "ace" is subjective with Morris and Buehrle. Morris was generally considered an "ace" because he was the top starter, or deemed to be. Often Buehrle was a top starter for the White Sox, but was never an "ace" mainly because he didn't throw 95 mph fastballs.

Also, Buehrle never had eye-popping numbers. He never got 20 wins, he never won a Cy Young, and he most definitely never came close to leading the league in strikeouts. The term "ace" is usually reserved for someone overpowering. Buehrle was merely frustrating (to hitters if his curve was down, to his own teammates and fans if it stayed up.)

That is fair, although I think of it that way more because of Buehrle's junk than Morris' stuff.

Take away the word ace, and you still have Morris arguably (but no stretch to make the argument) having been the best pitcher of the 1980s. You can't make any kind of serious argument like that with regard to Mark Buehrle in the 2000s.

And again, Morris was up there in the MVP voting 5 times. Got Cy Young votes 7 times. Buehrle got Cy Young votes the year the White Sox made the series.

Compare each of them to their eras, and I don't see how anyone who watched baseball during these times could argue that Mark Buehrle to the 2000s was anything near Jack Morris to the 1980s. Regardless of what they think of Morris for the HOF.

I can't see how anyone who would visit both Twitter and Facebook would think that Facebook's stock price would be higher.

Then you should definitely start another stupid thread.