Manny

[Piotr Rasputin]

Piotr,

The guy quit on his team, and the way he played down the stretch only proved it, and shot his way out of town. There's plenty of reason to be less than pleased with the guy. I haven't seen anyone suggest the Red Sox would have won a WS without Manny, there is no way they would have.

As for the Dodgers, they've won playoff rounds before. What were you trying to say there?

I got a ltitle too excited. Felt like the first one in history . . . .

Manny's exit from Boston was despicable. His complete body of work should cement him a permanent place in the hearts of Red Sox fans.

Of course, I can't stand Shaquille O'Neal, so I understand why Manny doesn't merit the unconditional love. But Sox fans were feeling five years ago what Cubs fans feel tonight. I just think that positive emotion from 2004 should never have a chance to diminish.

A friend who is a Red Sox fan told me last night that 2007 diminishes 2004. But to me, 2007 doesn't happen without 2004. Prior to that first one, a Sox team that falls behind Cleveland (or anyone) in a playoff series 3-1 folds its tents, other than when facing the Angels, who were worse when it came to puckering up in the playoffs.

Because that 2004 run completely changed the culture of the franchise, there was no doubt the Red Sox would win that 2007 ALCS, and the title. With time, Manny's bullcrap will be remembered more fondly.

 

[buckweaver]

Manny grabbed a mic about 45 mins after the game and yelled to the crowd: "Party at my house tonight! We party like rock stars! If you can find my house." Too ****ing cool.

 

[Oz]

Manny spent eight years in Cleveland and seven-plus seasons in Boston. So if history holds, Manny will wear out his welcome in L.A. in approximately 2015.

And if what some Boston fans say is true, that the Red Sox are a better team without him this year, then shouldn't those same Red Sox fans be happy Manny helped force a trade?

The way it worked out in the end benefitted the Red Sox, but if they had the Manny that gave a ****, the one that magically appeared at LAX, odds are they win the division. Instead they got one that nearly didn't get on a flight, they had to force to play, and force him to take medical tests when he said he couldn't go.

Seems like both sides were at fault. Yeah, Manny didn't play hard (even though he did bat .347 for the month of July, when he supposedly tanked it), but the Red Sox didn't exactly do anything to discourage the behavior. Charlie Manuel benched Jimmy Rollins twice this season, once for tardiness, once for lack of hustle. Maddon benched Upton many times for his lack of focus and hustle this season.

But what did the Red Sox ever do -- aside from placing him on waivers in 2003 -- to discourage his behavior? Why trade him for not running out balls to first base when he had done that for seven-plus seasons already? Why is Manny suddenly a cancer when he did what he had always done, because the organization let him get away with it?

 

[pallister]

If Manny wins a ring this year with the Dodgers, he'll be allowed to do whatever the hell he wants for as long as he continues to play.

 

[editorhoo]

Manny will eventually wear out his welcome in LA the way he did in Cleveland and Boston. But as long as he's motivated and happy where he is, he's a great hitter with a flair for the dramatic. As a Red Sox fan, I hate the way he left, but I have to acknowledge that while he was there, he came through with some great moments that helped them win two World Series and slay the ghost of the Babe. For that, he'll always remembered with a measure of fondness in Bawston.

LA's the perfect place for Manny. It would be hard for him to wear out his welcome there because to do that, the fans actually would have to care. People in LA are too busy getting nip/tucks and going to oxygen bars.

And for the record, he never wore out his welcome in Cleveland. They love him there.

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

There were rules (as in, no rules) for Ramirez/Martinez and there were rules for everyone else. That goes back. Somebody told me (in March 2004) there had been a big blowup about Manny smoking on the team bus and nobody doing **** about it. The Red Sox enabled him for years.

 

[spnited]

Because the Red Sox knew Manny had them by the balls. They had a $20 million option for next year that he wanted renegotiated. Their choices were exercise the option and have a pissed off crazy man (and hitting savant) on their hands, renegotiate and have Boras hold them up, or give him away (and a few other players) for a decent but not great left fielder.

So they have Jason Bay, nice player. The Dodgers, for now, have Manny Ramirez, first ****ing ballot Hall of Famer, best hitter of his generation, the guy who will put them in the World Series and if the play the Red Sox will hit .900 with 10 home runs in a 5 games series.

Whoever wants to meet Boras' demand for 4 years, $100 mill will have a totally motivated Manny next year -- he's got something to prove -- and a potential headache (who will still be the most feared hitter in any lineup) for three years after that.
I think I'd take him in left field at Citi Field next season.

 

[pallister]

The Mets would be the only team Manny couldn't lead to a title.

 

[Tom Petty]

Because the Red Sox knew Manny had them by the balls. They had a $20 million option for next year that he wanted renegotiated. Their choices were exercise the option and have a pissed off crazy man (and hitting savant) on their hands, renegotiate and have Boras hold them up, or give him away (and a few other players) for a decent but not great left fielder.

So they have Jason Bay, nice player. The Dodgers, for now, have Manny Ramirez, first ****ing ballot Hall of Famer, best hitter of his generation, the guy who will put them in the World Series and if the play the Red Sox will hit .900 with 10 home runs in a 5 games series.

Whoever wants to meet Boras' demand for 4 years, $100 mill will have a totally motivated Manny next year -- he's got something to prove -- and a potential headache (who will still be the most feared hitter in any lineup) for three years after that.
I think I'd take him in left field at Citi Field next season.

i don't think want him back for four years, so yeah, you can have him.

 

[spnited]

The Mets would be the only team Manny couldn't lead to a title.

If he could pitch the ninth inning he could do it!

 

[KP]

Manny spent eight years in Cleveland and seven-plus seasons in Boston. So if history holds, Manny will wear out his welcome in L.A. in approximately 2015.

And if what some Boston fans say is true, that the Red Sox are a better team without him this year, then shouldn't those same Red Sox fans be happy Manny helped force a trade?

The way it worked out in the end benefitted the Red Sox, but if they had the Manny that gave a ****, the one that magically appeared at LAX, odds are they win the division. Instead they got one that nearly didn't get on a flight, they had to force to play, and force him to take medical tests when he said he couldn't go.

Seems like both sides were at fault. Yeah, Manny didn't play hard (even though he did bat .347 for the month of July, when he supposedly tanked it), but the Red Sox didn't exactly do anything to discourage the behavior. Charlie Manuel benched Jimmy Rollins twice this season, once for tardiness, once for lack of hustle. Maddon benched Upton many times for his lack of focus and hustle this season.

But what did the Red Sox ever do -- aside from placing him on waivers in 2003 -- to discourage his behavior? Why trade him for not running out balls to first base when he had done that for seven-plus seasons already? Why is Manny suddenly a cancer when he did what he had always done, because the organization let him get away with it?

Notice the number of ABs in July. He produced, but 25% of his AB are gone because he wouldn't play.
What good does it do to bench a guy for not wanting to play?

And different rules for stars is hardly a Boston-only issue.

 

[KP]

Because the Red Sox knew Manny had them by the balls. They had a $20 million option for next year that he wanted renegotiated. Their choices were exercise the option and have a pissed off crazy man (and hitting savant) on their hands, renegotiate and have Boras hold them up, or give him away (and a few other players) for a decent but not great left fielder.

So they have Jason Bay, nice player. The Dodgers, for now, have Manny Ramirez, first ****ing ballot Hall of Famer, best hitter of his generation, the guy who will put them in the World Series and if the play the Red Sox will hit .900 with 10 home runs in a 5 games series.

Whoever wants to meet Boras' demand for 4 years, $100 mill will have a totally motivated Manny next year -- he's got something to prove -- and a potential headache (who will still be the most feared hitter in any lineup) for three years after that.
I think I'd take him in left field at Citi Field next season.

No way he gets 10 ABs in 5 games. 1-for-10 Ethier is going to have to beat me if I'm Francona.

 

[Oz]

Notice the number of ABs in July. He produced, but 25% of his AB are gone because he wouldn't play.
What good does it do to bench a guy for not wanting to play?

And different rules for stars is hardly a Boston-only issue.

Manny pulls himself from the lineup one night in the Bronx. MRI shows nothing, he's faking it, he's giving up on the team.

Beckett pulls himself from a start one night in the Bronx. MRI shows nothing, no one questions it, he's welcomed back ASAP.

I kinda thought the difference in response from the team and Red Sox fans was funny.

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

A clown like Ramirez needs a strict performance-based contract frontloaded and backloaded with incentives. Five-hundred AB. Thirty-five-plus home runs. One-hundred-plus RBI. One-hundred forty games. Make Manny earn his money. He'll do it anyway -- but it must be a necessitation.

 

[KP]

Notice the number of ABs in July. He produced, but 25% of his AB are gone because he wouldn't play.
What good does it do to bench a guy for not wanting to play?

And different rules for stars is hardly a Boston-only issue.

Manny pulls himself from the lineup one night in the Bronx. MRI shows nothing, he's faking it, he's giving up on the team.

Beckett pulls himself from a start one night in the Bronx. MRI shows nothing, no one questions it, he's welcomed back ASAP.

I kinda thought the difference in response from the team and Red Sox fans was funny.

Look at the track record of the two players, Ramirez has had a history of taking longer to recover from injuries (going back to Cleveland) to the point where it got on teammates the way Drew does. Same way you can't compare punishing Upton, or even Rollins, to Ramirez.

LJB, if you could get away with that, he'd put up numbers that we've rarely seen.

 

[Tom Petty]

A clown like Ramirez needs a strict performance-based contract frontloaded and backloaded with incentives. Five-hundred fifty AB. Thirty-five-plus home runs. One-hundred-plus RBI. Bill James could pull out the kitchen sink of stats. Make Manny earn his money. He'll do it anyway -- but it must be a necessitation.

sorry, but i think james is busy at the moment ...

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

hiuck hiuck hiuck

 

[Oz]

Manny pulls himself from the lineup one night in the Bronx. MRI shows nothing, he's faking it, he's giving up on the team.

Beckett pulls himself from a start one night in the Bronx. MRI shows nothing, no one questions it, he's welcomed back ASAP.

I kinda thought the difference in response from the team and Red Sox fans was funny.

Look at the track record of the two players, Ramirez has had a history of taking longer to recover from injuries (going back to Cleveland) to the point where it got on teammates the way Drew does. Same way you can't compare punishing Upton, or even Rollins, to Ramirez.

Looking at Manny's track record, he was always there for the Red Sox when they needed him the most. When the stakes were higher in September, then higher again in October, he delivered. Much like Beckett. When I read stories about teammates who wondered whether Manny would be there down the stretch, I wonder what player they watched the past seven-plus seasons in Boston.

 

[spnited]

Manny could hit 70 HRs, drive in 200 runs, bat .380 and Bill James would invent some douchebag sabermetric stat to show he wasn't a good hitter.

 

[KP]

Manny could hit 70 HRs, drive in 200 runs, bat .380 and Bill James would invent some douchebag sabermetric stat to show he wasn't a good hitter.

Thats the type of year he could have if he was paid with incentives and not given the bonds treatment.