Is what we do demeaning?

[dooley_womack1]

Or just want to chime in and tell me I'm nuts, this is the world's greatest job?

So this part of the offer wasn't actually genuine.

You're getting an honest response to the question you asked, and to the manner in which you asked it. You used the word "demeaning" to describe our work. Were you hoping for sympathy or empathy thereafter?

This job, any job, is only ever what you make of it.

I was attacked by spnited almost immediately. But I guess that part was OK.

So I'm a little frustrated tonight, a little gloomy over not being able to make any connections with the people I cover, repeatedly. And knowing they're trained that way, that I and everyone else in the media is the enemy.

I'm guessing some of you haven't covered big-time college football on a regular basis. That's not an insult. I just get that feeling because anyone who has knows how frustrating it can get.

And now I'm a big punchline, that's great. I'm glad you guys are junior high kids who can gang up on someone. Very grown up.

How do you know what we cover?
Man, you are an arrogant prick.
I find this thread very demeaning.

Worst. Haiku. Ever.

 

[dooley_womack1]

I'm not sure that our age or relative standing in the field has any relevance. Nor should it. But if it's any consolation, both spnited and I were out of junior high well before von Hindenburg resigned.

 

[jambalaya]

OK, what if it had been titled, "Can what we do feel demeaning?"

I'm really shocked at the reaction here. I thought it was a legitimate vent that a lot of people could empathize with. I guess everyone else loves every minute of this, though. Oh, well. Learn something new every day.

Happened to be in a town a few weeks ago where a former co-worker is now located. He left to cover a highly ranked college department for a great paper. Read his story that Saturday morning and thought he was doing great. So I called him. To my surprise, he was down, felt like he was just going through the motions. Now, I'd love to be doing his job and as much as I'm sure he is enjoying it, too, this fella thought he was just getting by. Maybe we all have moments of feeling ****ty over our work or circumstances.

My idea is to always have two or three projects in the works to look forward to. If I get to one of them, it's a victory. It at least keeps my head above the day-to-day grind which gets to us all. In those small moments, just keep thinking about the positive things coming up, say a prayer, and for God's sake don't gripe about it on a message board!

 

[forever_town]

So in addition to being unhappy with your salary (based on your other thread), you think the job is demeaning. I have some career advice for you:

GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS NOW!

You have the nerve to call yourself "Pulitzer Wannabe" and post **** like this.

Wow.

What a ****ing prick.

He may have used coarse language, but I think he has a very valid point. If you want to end up winning one of those Pulitzers, you're going to have to put in the work it takes to do it, no matter how "demeaning" you think it is.

No one starts out writing above the fold A1 stories at The New York Times right out of college without cheating [see Blair, Jayson]. If you want the "glory" that comes with the profession, you've got to be willing to pay the price. Otherwise, you're not doing yourself or your readers any favors.

 

[jgmacg]

I'm not sure that our age or relative standing in the field has any relevance. Nor should it. But if it's any consolation, both spnited and I were out of junior high well before von Hindenburg resigned.

True. But I got to go to the prom with Bismarck's sister.

 

[Lugnuts]

Pulitzer, yes. I do feel that way sometimes. But if you adopt an attitude of: "Hey asshole. Your career is short, and you make a living with your body. I'm here for the long haul, and I make my living with my brain." And carry yourself that way, I find it helps with the 'demeaning' thing.

 

[boots]

Pulitzer, yes. I do feel that way sometimes. But if you adopt an attitude of: "Hey asshole. Your career is short, and you make a living with your body. I'm here for the long haul, and I make my living with my brain." And carry yourself that way, I find it helps with the 'demeaning' thing.

Lug that used to work. Until one day I looked an athlete's paycheck that was sitting in his sneaker. That shock still hurts to this day.

 

[ServeItUp]

Pulitzer, yes. I do feel that way sometimes. But if you adopt an attitude of: "Hey asshole. Your career is short, and you make a living with your body. I'm here for the long haul, and I make my living with my brain." And carry yourself that way, I find it helps with the 'demeaning' thing.

Paychecks notwithstanding, I like this. Good take.

 

[BTExpress]

We're often forced also to ask obvious questions in order to get a quote we need. If you're on a beat, you probably already know the answer to any question you might ask for a gamer, but you need the answer in a fresh quote.

I have never liked that way of thinking.

Unless you are doing an investigative piece and need someone to confirm something you know, you never "need" a quote that answers a question you already know the answer to.

That is boring, formula writing. ("I just need to throw these quotes in and I'm done.")

You only get X amount of time for an interview and X amount of questions to ask. So ask questions you don't know the answer to. Chances are if you already know the answer to the question, the reader does, too. And the reader likely wants fresh MATERIAL . . . not a fresh quote to a stale question.

Sure, asking a formula question might cause someone accidentally give you a gem ("PLAYOFFS??? PLAYOFFS???) every once in a while. But most of the time it gives you a boring, formula answer that, speaking as a reader, I don't care to read, even if you, as a writer, feel you "need that quote" in your story.

 

[forever_town]

Sure, asking a formula question might cause someone accidentally give you a gem ("PLAYOFFS??? PLAYOFFS???) every once in a while. But most of the time it gives you a boring, formula answer that, speaking as a reader, I don't care to read, even if you, as a writer, feel you "need that quote" in your story.

Agreed. A guy who started a lot of the games I covered for the minor league baseball team in my county had a habit of giving me at least one interesting, non-formulaic quote per game. I'd leave the clubhouse and think "that quote's GOT to get in!"

If you've got an observation about the game, don't be afraid to ask the questions no one else thinks of. That might make your piece a little more readable compared to the more formulaic gamer elsewhere.

 

[Ace]

There are times, covering a top-five college team, when I wonder if I'm the butt of some hidden-camera practical-joke show.

-- Drive an hour round-trip for a practice. We're supposed to be allowed in for our daily 15 minutes at 4 p.m. We're finally let in at 4:45 -- for 7 minutes.
-- Ask a fourth time if I can have 5 minutes with assistant coach after practice. "I'll check, but I don't think it'll be a problem." After practice, "I looked for him; I don't know where he is."
-- Led from one end of the football complex, where we were told to enter for media day, to the far corner of the indoor facility (walk of about 350 yards, for a courtesy "meal" of hot dogs and sausages that had flies landing on them. There is a door right near the food. We could have entered there. After meal, led outside (in 95-degree weather) back to the other end of the complex. Coaching staff found out we'd been in the forbidden areas earlier, so we had to walk outside (I guess so we wouldn't see state secrets) this time.
-- No such thing as a one-on-one interview with a player. Usually, 10 minutes max, with five-10 others encircling him.
-- Student sports information staffer taping every interview (supposedly for "learning purposes," but clearly to check the accuracy of what we write, and to keep tabs on what we're asking).
-- Having to stand right next to five or six portable toilets while we wait to go inside for our 15 minutes when practice is indoors. Coach comes out one day and does his business while we stand three feet away. Manager another time.
-- Players available Monday and Tuesday of game week. Coach available Sunday (to a select few), Monday (presser) and Wednesday.
-- Arriving at practice fields at 9 a.m. (media allowed in at 9:15) the day of a scrimmage. A staffer says, "Oh, they decided to do it in the stadium." By the time you drive there, park and walk to the right gate, you find out the seven minutes of pre-scrimmage practice open to the media is already over.
-- Ninety percent of the quotes you get are on the radio or Internet (or both) before you get back to the office. So much for fresh material.

Sometimes you think they're just ****ing with you. Other times you think they're trying to see how much they can **** with you.

Of course, they get pissed when you do the arrest stories and other "negative" stories, but they don't understand that they've made those easier to write than the features and get-to-know-so-and-so stories you'd like to write.

I feel everyone's pain and frustration. I'm not going to quibble with someone using the term demeaning. Sometimes you do feel like they're just laughing behind your back, saying "Can you believe they let us do this to them?"

That said, I work hard to work around all the roadblocks. I find other ways to get the story, or a different story. It's all you can do. When it's no longer worth it, I'll become a Wal-Mart greeter.

I don't know if what we do is demeaning, but this crap we have to put up with is demeaning for sure.

 

[amraeder]

Man, PW, I can't imagine not getting any one-on-one time. That sucks.
I've very new to this business, so I've only covered two colleges -- the one I went to school at and my current stop.
At both, and the one i went to school at is big D-I, I could get one-on-one time with players. Even for football previews, the thing might start as a gang bang, but eventually the other guys would wander off and I could chat with someone.
I also found, later, that even though I was supposed to go through the SID, most coaches were cool if I just stuck my head in their office and asked if they had a few minutes to spare.
I can't imagine trying to cover a beat properly without being able to do these things.
That stinks man.
Can you get a kid's cell number, do a phone interview and kinda chat afterwards? Or a coach's?
Wish I had good advice, but I've never been in that situation. I guess I should consider myself lucky.

 

[Ace]

Man, PW, I can't imagine not getting any one-on-one time. That sucks.
I've very new to this business, so I've only covered two colleges -- the one I went to school at and my current stop.
At both, and the one i went to school at is big D-I, I could get one-on-one time with players. Even for football previews, the thing might start as a gang bang, but eventually the other guys would wander off and I could chat with someone.
I also found, later, that even though I was supposed to go through the SID, most coaches were cool if I just stuck my head in their office and asked if they had a few minutes to spare.
I can't imagine trying to cover a beat properly without being able to do these things.
That stinks man.
Can you get a kid's cell number, do a phone interview and kinda chat afterwards? Or a coach's?
Wish I had good advice, but I've never been in that situation. I guess I should consider myself lucky.

am,

What wannabe and J_D are describing is more the norm in Top 25 college sports factories. You're dealing with the exception, sadly.

 

[henryhenry]

Man, PW, I can't imagine not getting any one-on-one time. That sucks.
I've very new to this business, so I've only covered two colleges -- the one I went to school at and my current stop.
At both, and the one i went to school at is big D-I, I could get one-on-one time with players. Even for football previews, the thing might start as a gang bang, but eventually the other guys would wander off and I could chat with someone.
I also found, later, that even though I was supposed to go through the SID, most coaches were cool if I just stuck my head in their office and asked if they had a few minutes to spare.
I can't imagine trying to cover a beat properly without being able to do these things.
That stinks man.
Can you get a kid's cell number, do a phone interview and kinda chat afterwards? Or a coach's?
Wish I had good advice, but I've never been in that situation. I guess I should consider myself lucky.

am,

What wannabe and J_D are describing is more the norm in Top 25 college sports factories. You're dealing with the exception, sadly.

i think it's football. too much time between games - not enough games - the hierarchial obsessive structure - the lombardi ethic, etc - crazed violent nutcases - concussions - idiot yahoo boosters

just get away from football - and your attitude will improve

cover baseball for awhile - get to the ballpark early - you'll find plenty of decent conversations

 

[Pete Incaviglia]

I haven't waded through the posts - we're up to four pages - but in terms of the original question, or my thoughts anyway, there are times I think what I do is ridiculous. There are stories I write that I know only 30 people will read. But then I also cover the biggest beat in town, too.

And the team has some good players, in terms of talent and character. The star is nothing short of the nicest guy I've ever met. He's smart, funny, honest. So are most of the other key players. It's a joy to be around the team. That may change when players leave, who knows?

And I know people read my stuff because I receive feedback. Good or bad, any feedback is good because I know I'm doing something people appreciate - or at least use, read, etc.

 

[luckyducky]

Pulitzer--how long have you been in the business?

I ask because if you're relatively new, maybe you haven't had that great moment when you know exactly why you got into this...and you know you're in the right place. If you've been around for a long time, and you still feel disconnected and demeaned, you owe it to yourself to find something more rewarding. It's your life.

I hope someday I have that moment. And I hope it's before I take the leap out for lack of having that moment.

 

[DanOregon]

Sounds like a lot of people are writing stories that don't particularly interest them. If they don't interest you, why do you think they'd interest anyone else?

 

[lawoman]

That's when I feel the most demeaned -- when I'm writing something that I don't much care about and on top of that, get some attitude from a coach or player. I just feel like throwing my hands up and saying why bother?

The key is finding stories that they give me that feeling to where even if I have to deal with some attitude I'm still going after the story. It's hard feeling that way on every piece though.

 

[Elliotte Friedman]

Same deal here as on the other thread. Want to rip at each other, do it in PMs.

Leave this to the topic.

 

[Paper Champion]

I never thought of our profession as demeaning. We chronicle other people’s lives for a living. That’s more humbling than demeaning, and that’s not a bad thing.

What never gets old is how cool our families and friends feel our jobs are. They only see the positives in it, but so what.