How Do You Handle This?

[Pete Incaviglia]

Are you a writer? If so, why the hell would you be at your desk anyway? Go out, find a story, and then the SE won't know how many hours you worked, because you were out in the field.

Couple reasons. 1) We aren't allowed to work from home. 2) We don't file from venues in town. The arena is within walking distance. As are the baseball and football stadiums. All writing is done at the office, unless I'm at a road game.

That's why I'd be at my desk. Oh, and to write my weekly column.

That's just retarded.

You're not allowed to work from home? Why?

Because, how would my SE know I'm actually working? (see other posts about his old schoolness, etc.)

 

[Oggiedoggie]

Wow.

All he did was ask about your Monday hours.

and then, you go on to say:

As far as talking to him? He's the most unapproachable, unrelenting, least understanding man I've worked for.

Sounds as though the problems between you two go way deeper and just a minor dispute over hours.

Perhaps you two are in major need of one of those male-bonding weekends in the wilderness.

You might be amazed at the truths that come out when you're holding the talking stick.

 

[silentbob]

Could you be misinterpreting your editor's email response?

I'm pretty sure every editor in the business these days has been instructed to avoid overtime at all costs. That's probably just what he's doing. Just asking a question to cover his own butt.

You sent back a response. Leave it at that.

Not saying you shouldn't stick up for yourself ... but I'm not sure it's wise to pick a fight over 30 minutes of OT, especially because a game went long (extra innings, overtime, late starts ... that kind of goes with the territory.) Again, I know nothing of your job environment, but this sounds kind of petty -- and something a managing editor would remember when he is told to make newsroom cuts.

 

[forever_town]

Sounds as though the problems between you two go way deeper and just a minor dispute over hours.

That was my point exactly.

 

[OTD]

I'm wondering if someone like the ME or publisher saw Pete leaving early that day and asked the SE about it. "Hey, was that Pete I saw leaving early? We can't have people doing that, you know." Next thing, the **** starts rolling down hill.

That wouldn't mean that the SE's not a douchebag, however.

 

[Seahawk]

I once had an SE who was upset that I came into the office with a scoop because:
A) I hadn't asked if it was okay to check into the story.
B) It wasn't done during office time.
C) One of my duties that day in the office was to lay out one of the 29 or so weeklies that we printed out of our office. The SE was upset that I seemed more focused on breaking a story than on compiling the various various local stories that were regurgitated in the weekly.

Just a couple notes to add:
1) I did not write the story in lieu of any other work for the day. I had already taken care of the weekly content, and I didn't slack on any of the other 2,043,301 tasks for the night.
2) The larger paper that owned us wound up running the story, so the SE eventually allowed the story.

Still, I was completely baffled that I got sternly lectured for bringing news in with me. Completely baffled. Similar stuff happened fairly regularly there, and that played a role in me leaving eventually. I had never heard of a newspaper being upset with a reporter for breaking news. The fact that laying out a weekly was more important to the guy than getting a story in for the daily was a major red flag.

 

[Pete Incaviglia]

Could you be misinterpreting your editor's email response?

I'm pretty sure every editor in the business these days has been instructed to avoid overtime at all costs. That's probably just what he's doing. Just asking a question to cover his own butt.

You sent back a response. Leave it at that.

Not saying you shouldn't stick up for yourself ... but I'm not sure it's wise to pick a fight over 30 minutes of OT, especially because a game went long (extra innings, overtime, late starts ... that kind of goes with the territory.) Again, I know nothing of your job environment, but this sounds kind of petty -- and something a managing editor would remember when he is told to make newsroom cuts.

Bob, why is my time not worth being paid for? Why do reporters who cover council get paid OT when a meeting runs long, but I'm expected to work for free when a game goes triple OT — because I'm in sports?

Hey, 11 years ago, when I got my first job in this biz, I might have cared less. But I have a family I'd like to see as often as I can.

And, if I work just one hour OT every week for a year and don't get paid for it, I'm losing in excess of $1,500 a year. I'm not a) working for free or b) pissing money away — especially when every other department gets paid theirs.

I can't believe how many people think it's perfectly acceptable to work and not be paid for it.

Like I said, there used to be a time I'd work nine hours one day and seven the next. So this would never ever be an issue. But my SE took exception with that one day — even though it was HIS original idea. So, I work my 7.5 every day and get paid for anything more than that.

 

[RedSmithClone]

Old editor to young reporter: "What are you doing in the office? There aren't any stories in the office. Get out and find a story!"

Every manager I've had who required writers to keep office hours was, deep down, a douchebag. They are middle-level muckety-mucks who have no conception of how to measure a writer's output (quality and quantity), so they resort to measuring input. Get away from bosses like that as quick as you can, because they can really mess you up.

Sometimes office hours are needed for writers. At least at small and mid-sized papers where they are needed to layout once or twice a week.

But I see your point that if all they are doing is writing then why be in the office aside from staff meetings.

Personally, if I could just write I think I would still come into the office at least once a week to help with the phones, make human contact with my co-workers and work on a column or story.

 

[Stitch]

I think you should get paid OT if you do the work. But like I wrote earlier, if you get OT if you work more than 7.5 hours a day, cut out early one day, and work late the next and get OT that day, I could see where an editor may question you.

Now if you just received OT if you worked over 37.5 or 40 hours a week, I don't see where it's a problem if someone cuts out early one day and makes it up later in the week.

 

[Pete Incaviglia]

I think you should get paid OT if you do the work. But like I wrote earlier, if you get OT if you work more than 7.5 hours a day, cut out early one day, and work late the next and get OT that day, I could see where an editor may question you.

Now if you just received OT if you worked over 37.5 or 40 hours a week, I don't see where it's a problem if someone cuts out early one day and makes it up later in the week.

I absolutely agree. But I NEVER — seriously, never — cut out early anymore.

 

[Stitch]

How do you get around that problem before? I assume there were times when you had to leave work for personal appointments.

 

[Pete Incaviglia]

How do you get around that problem before? I assume there were times when you had to leave work for personal appointments.

I work afternoons and weekends. So I make appointments during mornings or on my days off.

The only place I'd be going if I cut out early is the bar. And I'm too old to be doing that now.

 

[silentbob]

Could you be misinterpreting your editor's email response?

I'm pretty sure every editor in the business these days has been instructed to avoid overtime at all costs. That's probably just what he's doing. Just asking a question to cover his own butt.

You sent back a response. Leave it at that.

Not saying you shouldn't stick up for yourself ... but I'm not sure it's wise to pick a fight over 30 minutes of OT, especially because a game went long (extra innings, overtime, late starts ... that kind of goes with the territory.) Again, I know nothing of your job environment, but this sounds kind of petty -- and something a managing editor would remember when he is told to make newsroom cuts.

Bob, why is my time not worth being paid for? Why do reporters who cover council get paid OT when a meeting runs long, but I'm expected to work for free when a game goes triple OT — because I'm in sports?

Hey, 11 years ago, when I got my first job in this biz, I might have cared less. But I have a family I'd like to see as often as I can.

And, if I work just one hour OT every week for a year and don't get paid for it, I'm losing in excess of $1,500 a year. I'm not a) working for free or b) pissing money away — especially when every other department gets paid theirs.

I can't believe how many people think it's perfectly acceptable to work and not be paid for it.

Like I said, there used to be a time I'd work nine hours one day and seven the next. So this would never ever be an issue. But my SE took exception with that one day — even though it was HIS original idea. So, I work my 7.5 every day and get paid for anything more than that.

Pete, you are absolutely right. It's not fair.

But it sounds like you've been in this business long enough to know that the sports and news operations go by different rules. In this job climate, you're walking down a dangerous path putting down OT because a game went long. That's just my opinion. Only you know how much leverage you have. And I think I remember reading that you're at a union paper. That, of course, helps. But just be careful. I'd hate to have this come back and bite you.

 

[fossywriter8]

Pete, you are absolutely right. It's not fair.

But it sounds like you've been in this business long enough to know that the sports and news operations go by different rules. In this job climate, you're walking down a dangerous path putting down OT because a game went long. That's just my opinion. Only you know how much leverage you have. And I think I remember reading that you're at a union paper. That, of course, helps. But just be careful. I'd hate to have this come back and bite you.

This doesn't deal with OT pay, but it is related:
Former publisher at one of the papers where I work once complained to the sprots editor about how one of our issues (either a Saturday or Sunday) ran over deadline. The reason? A key game we staffed involving an area team on the road went into multiple overtimes and the writer (the sports editor, in fact) didn't get back into the office until about an hour before deadline.
No, don't ask "Couldn't he have sent from the site?" No Internet on site, no computer at site, no wireless laptop. This was straight-up drive there, cover game, drive back and write.
Oh, and the sports editor also had to lay out the section after writing his story.
When told of the multiple OT game, the publisher had this response: "You're supposed to budget for things like that."
This is the same douche bag who once told another sports writer, after being informed of how pushing up our deadlines by a couple of hours affected the quality of work, "just make sure you get all their names in there."

 

[editorhoo]

Pete, you are absolutely right. It's not fair.

But it sounds like you've been in this business long enough to know that the sports and news operations go by different rules. In this job climate, you're walking down a dangerous path putting down OT because a game went long. That's just my opinion. Only you know how much leverage you have. And I think I remember reading that you're at a union paper. That, of course, helps. But just be careful. I'd hate to have this come back and bite you.

This doesn't deal with OT pay, but it is related:
Former publisher at one of the papers where I work once complained to the sprots editor about how one of our issues (either a Saturday or Sunday) ran over deadline. The reason? A key game we staffed involving an area team on the road went into multiple overtimes and the writer (the sports editor, in fact) didn't get back into the office until about an hour before deadline.
No, don't ask "Couldn't he have sent from the site?" No Internet on site, no computer at site, no wireless laptop. This was straight-up drive there, cover game, drive back and write.
Oh, and the sports editor also had to lay out the section after writing his story.
When told of the multiple OT game, the publisher had this response: "You're supposed to budget for things like that."
This is the same douche bag who once told another sports writer, after being informed of how pushing up our deadlines by a couple of hours affected the quality of work, "just make sure you get all their names in there."

And remember, only 30 percent of readers read sports anyway.

 

[editorhoo]

Pete (or should I say, "Inky"),

I've been reading with great interest your overtime rants and the the unspoken belief that it's OK for us to work our tails off for free because it's sports.

I don't know what you do, but I work for a small daily and cover high school sports. That means I don't have an SID hand feed me stats, play-by-play and interesting factoids. I have to track those and find those myself. That is A LOT of work. Tracking every play of a football or basketball game — let alone digesting what is going on — isn't just sitting there, relaxing and enjoying a game. It's no different than someone from news side covering a meeting. It's work.

Further, I drove about 1,100 miles in February to cover basketball games. A little simple math tells me that's about 24 hours I spent in my car. We only get paid for 7.5 hours per day, so I spent more than three work days in my car. And anyone who doesn't think driving to and from games is work, I have three questions:

1. How do I produce the work I need to produce that night (game story) without going to and from the game?
2. Why do I get reimbursed for mileage?
3. Are the ad department people off the clock when their driving to local businesses?

I wish people understood how miserable our line of work is.

 

[Pete Incaviglia]

I'm not saying our line of work is miserable. I'm just saying I want to be paid for my work. And hell, like at any job I've ever worked, I tried to be flexible and accommodating. But that fell by the wayside, so, pay me.

I love my beats. Like most of who I work with. So, it's not all total BS.

 

[editorhoo]

I agree. I love what I do, and I'd do it for free if I had the means. But what I meant by miserable was not getting properly compensated.