Hey, zeke. A Question.

[Fenian_Bastard]

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/12/report_obama_takes_dig_at_edwards_trial_lawyer_past.php

Is there a rightist talking-point Obama won't use?
When's he coming out for "tort reform," aka the Dalkon Shield Protection Act?
He's making me very nervous.

 

[zeke12]

I think the point that the Senator was making was that he took his law degree, left a high paying job and went to work organizing poor people in Chicago. That shows a commitment to working for the poor.

Senator Edwards took his law degree and went to work as a trial lawyer. That shows a commitment to working for the poor or a desire to earn $50 million, or both.

But either way, he's saying, I don't think he has to cede the populist mantle to Edwards just because the gentleman from North Carolina decided to spend this primary turning up the populist rhetoric.

Or perhaps he's following Paul Krugman's lead and simply letting Democratic primary voters know the kind of tactics he'll be up against.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

No.
To me, he's demonstrating that he was serious when he told us that he considered Joe Lieberman one of his senatorial mentors.
He also, as I recall, voted for this little gem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_Action_Fairness_Act_of_2005
...which leads me to believe he'll get around to tort reform eventually.

 

[Chi City 81]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, and I want to be wrong in this case, but are you hoping to find enough reasons not to vote for Obama, Fenian?

 

[pallister]

This is so cute.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, and I want to be wrong in this case, but are you hoping to find enough reasons not to vote for Obama, Fenian?

It's getting so that I don't have to look too hard for them. I can vote for him against anyone on the other side. I can vote for Hillary against anyone on the other side. That is such a towering collection of rodeo clowns that half the Republican electorate doesn't much like any of them, which is unprecedented in an eight-way field. But Obama's "get beyond politics" shtick is making my skin itch a little. What that comes down to, for me, is that nobody ever gets held accountable for seven years of unipartisan vandalism and a President Obama who gets nuked by the people he thinks he can compromise with.

 

[zeke12]

No.
To me, he's demonstrating that he was serious when he told us that he considered Joe Lieberman one of his senatorial mentors.
He also, as I recall, voted for this little gem:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_Action_Fairness_Act_of_2005
...which leads me to believe he'll get around to tort reform eventually.

Well, OK. That's your right, I guess.

But I thought your beef with Obama was that he was too much of a dancer and not enough of a puncher. So, he throws a jab -- and really, it was a light jab -- and you get mad at him about that.

But if you want to play that game, I would say the following. I like the campaign Edwards has run this time around.

I have trouble squaring this campaign, however, with the John Edwards who voted for the war in Iraq, the John Edwards who doesn't have any populist record to speak of in the Senate and the John Edwards who sat on the sidelines while his running mate got swiftboated the last time around.

When I combine that with the simple fact that Edwards doesn't have enough money to beat Hillary, and even if he could pull that miracle off he would be essentially broke until the convention. So, if you're worried about what happens to candidates when the Republican attack machine gets ahold of them, well, you might not want to lean Edwards, who won't even have a voice to defend himself.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Oh, I suspect the money will be there is Edwards manages to beat Hillary, which he won't. And, while the vote on the war is why I probably won't be voting for Edwards, I don't think it's unfair to assume that a) he was doing what the top of the ticket wanted him to do in re; the Swifties last time, and b) that his views on certain issues may have changed given the wreckage that's piled up over the past seven years. Outside of the war, it's hard to see that Obama recognizes any of it.
My objection to Obama is not that he's not tough. (I don't know enough on that one way or the other. His senatorial election was pretty much a gift, once the Seven of Nine Sex Tapes came out.) It's that he hasn't demonstrated the slightest inkling of what the actual fight is. He thinks the country wants to come together on some vague and rosy sense of America. Serious progressive reform seems to make him strangely uncomfortable, but which has endeared him to a lot of the Beltway folks. And every time he needs a counterattack, he reaches for the rightwing playbook -- Social Security Crisis! Trial Lawyers! -- and I can only hope he never feels compelled to talk about Vince Foster.

 

[writing irish]

This is proabably the most interesting political thread I've seen in weeks.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

And yet, I am full of fail.

 

[writing irish]

Ciudado, companero. En la era de le Reconquista Nueva, dicemos "Lleno de falle."

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Whatever.
Fail, fail, full of fail.

 

[zeke12]

Serious question: Do you think Obama is secretly a Republican?

Or, do you think that Iowa's going to come down to as few as a thousand votes, and that all three of the frontrunners have targeted the caucusers that can put them over the top, and, that for Obama, those voters are Independents and Republicans under 50?

Further, do you think it's possible that rather than being as clueless and naive as some would have you believe, the guy's a smart politician who sees, as you do, that the above referenced likely caucusers are looking at the GOP field, being given a choice between Mike Huckabee and Mitt Romney and not seeing a real choice there and maybe being willing to take a look at the other side?

Maybe, just maybe, a tack ever so slightly rightward isn't a bad thing for the Obama campaign right now?

Just a hunch.

 

[writing irish]

Too bad John Brown's body is a-moudlerin' in the grave. He was bat****, but I'd vote for him over any of the Dems. The country does indeed need a shake-up, not a tweaking.

JB's corpse in '08!

Carry on with the actual discussion. I'm too busy following the slaughtered cattle and harvested wheat around here to follow national news in any consistent fashion.

 

[BYH]

I thought for sure this thread would be about Don Henley.

 

[Tom Petty]

Nobody on the road,
nobody on the beach.
I feel it in the air,
the summers out of reach

Empty lake, empty streets,
the sun goes down alone.
I'm driving by your house
though i know that you not home...

And i can see you
you brown skin shining in the sun
you got your hair combed back
sunglasses on baby

and i can tell you
my love for you will still be strong
after the boy of summer have gone.

out on the road today
i saw a dead head sticker on a cadillac
a voice inside my head said don't look back
you can never look back

i thought i knew what love was
what did i know
those days are gone for ever
i should just let them go and...

i can see you
your brown skin shining in the sun
you know your walking real slow
smiling at everyone

i can tell you
my love for you will still be strong
after the boys of summer have gone.

I never will forget those nights
i wonder if it was a dream
remember how you drove me crazy?
remember how i made you scream?

now i don't understand what happed to our love
now baby gonna get you back
gonna show you what i'm made of...

i can see you
your brown skin shining in the sun
you got your top pulled down,
radio on baby

and i can tell you
my love for you will still be strong
after the boys of summer have gone.

 

[BYH]

God bless you Tomas.

God. Bless. You.

 

[Tom Petty]

God bless you Tomas.

God. Bless. You.

it had to happen.

 

[zeke12]

You know, it will be my luck that I'll be standing somewhere on election night, watching President-elect Obama give his victory speech and that song will start blaring.

If that happens, Tom, I will hunt you down! I know where you live!

 

[Yawn]

He's making me very nervous.

That's a good thing.

It'll be good preparation for November.