Have you given up?

[Pulitzer Wannabe]

the sad part is I don't know if 22-year-olds getting out of college now would even hope to reach where I am now 10 years down the road.

I am a 22-year-old out of college and I will admit--I have no hopes whatsoever of reaching where you are.

I am not saying this to knock journalism--I love it and it's my true passion, but the newspaper is dead. It's just the wrong era for us to try and jump into that profession. But, the exciting thing is figuring out how to be innovative in the years to come and jump into the dot-com era.

Here's the thing. Print still brings in like 95 percent of the revenue. True story.

 

[mdpoppy]

Here's the thing. Print still brings in like 95 percent of the revenue. True story.

Here's the thing. Revenue has nothing to do with your salary.

 

[Pulitzer Wannabe]

Here's the thing. Print still brings in like 95 percent of the revenue. True story.

Here's the thing. Revenue has nothing to do with your salary.

What I'm saying is, it's tough for news organizations to just scrap print because it's "dead" when it's still bringing in most of the money.

But go ahead and be a mocking, sarcastic prick. That's always the better option over a real discussion.

 

[Tom Petty]

i know many guys (away from work) who've been in this business for less than three years. and while i'm still in the business, i've told each and every one of them to break into another profession while they're still young. while each one of these guys are smart individuals, the haven't made smart decisions ... "i want to see how far i can get doing this."

i think they'll pay for their decisions down the road when the mass exodus takes place.

 

[mdpoppy]

What I'm saying is, it's tough for news organizations to just scrap print because it's "dead" when it's still bringing in most of the money.

But go ahead and be a mocking, sarcastic prick. That's always the better option over a real discussion.

I never said organizations would scrap it, but you can't deny everyone in this business is trying to find a more economical way to do things. It may not be dead, but it's certainly dying--maybe slowly, but still.

Not trying to be a prick, but you see what I mean? I don't think revenue correleates toomuch with what you're making--which is what this thread is partially about.

 

[Pulitzer Wannabe]

What I'm saying is, it's tough for news organizations to just scrap print because it's "dead" when it's still bringing in most of the money.

But go ahead and be a mocking, sarcastic prick. That's always the better option over a real discussion.

I never said organizations would scrap it, but you can't deny everyone in this business is trying to find a more economical way to do things. It may not be dead, but it's certainly dying--maybe slowly, but still.

Not trying to be a prick, but you see what I mean? I don't think revenue correleates toomuch with what you're making--which is what this thread is partially about.

It's cool. Yeah, I realize it's dying. I'm just saying that it sucks that print still is so much of the revenue. We can't move on in the business until we close that gap, you know?

And I'm not trying to whine as much about salary as much as I'm trying to say it would be easier to stay motivated if we all knew this might be headed somewhere brighter. I would guess there would be more of a chance of any of us being laid off five years from now than any of us making more than we do today.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

Dear Mdpoppy: There's a big difference between finding a more economical way of doing things and "doing the least we can without our advertisers noticing" which is current industry policy.

 

[ServeItUp]

Yeah, I've given up. I wanted to work at a magazine or a big-city paper but since I either don't understand what gets you on staff at those places or I'm just not good enough, there's the white flag from me. Maybe my problem was tying up so much of my identity in my work in my 20s, because the realization of my lot in life hit like a lead balloon.

Now, I just want a job. I want to show up, do my work, and disappear for 16 hours until I have to go back. Given the people around me do not share this desire, this is my last job in newspapers. Don't get me wrong, I'll continue to do my best every day and try to get better. I just have no illusions that it will get me up the chain to a bigger place or better payday.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Your profession is only a part of who you are, but taking into consideration hours worked and money made in that profession, many other things - ability to take a vacation, feed one's family, enjoy a certain quality of life - stem directly from your place of work.

Then perhaps your expectations of how life should be aren't in line with the career you've chosen.

I know a guy who was making six figures as a banker. Nice house, designer label clothing, BMW, the works. He chucked it all to become a fishing guide, because he didn't enjoy his job. In doing so, he had to adjust his expectations and lifestyle. He's never been happier and he's making less than $30,000 per year as an apprentice guide.

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

Your profession is only a part of who you are, but taking into consideration hours worked and money made in that profession, many other things - ability to take a vacation, feed one's family, enjoy a certain quality of life - stem directly from your place of work.

Then perhaps your expectations of how life should be aren't in line with the career you've chosen.

I know a guy who was making six figures as a banker. Nice house, designer label clothing, BMW, the works. He chucked it all to become a fishing guide, because he didn't enjoy his job. In doing so, he had to adjust his expectations and lifestyle. He's never been happier and he's making less than $30,000 per year as an apprentice guide.

So . . . your boy left his job as a banker to do something much less lucrative, "and had to adjust his expectations and his lifestyle." No ****?

Like I said, what you do for a living directly affects the rest of your life. It's the constant, the anchor that dictates how much time you have for personal things, and how much you can spend - in both money and time - on those personal things. I know exactly what my profession means; I never said otherwise. It is simply incorrect to minimize the importance of one's job on the rest of life. It's not your identity, but it can dictate what your outside identity is.

"He/she works all the time."

"He/she can never go out because of having to pay bills instead."

"He smells of fish all the time."

"He's always planning vacations thanks to his high paycheck."

"She gives the best gifts at Christmas, very generous."

Etc.

 

[forever_town]

forever_town: for what it's worth, that Eagles song was a cover of an old song by a dude who wrote a few Eagles songs, JD Souther. I only mention it because it just won a Grammy, and I hate when covers win Grammys. Someone else gets a Grammy and sells a million copies of a song they didn't write, yay.

Trust me, I know J.D. Souther wrote that song and performed it originally. The Eagles also performed this song live back in the 1970s before it got its second life on Long Road Out Of Eden. Their new version of this song was the first I'd heard of it, so that's why it's fresh on my mind.

That and my frequent singing of it at karaoke. :D

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Your profession is only a part of who you are, but taking into consideration hours worked and money made in that profession, many other things - ability to take a vacation, feed one's family, enjoy a certain quality of life - stem directly from your place of work.

Then perhaps your expectations of how life should be aren't in line with the career you've chosen.

I know a guy who was making six figures as a banker. Nice house, designer label clothing, BMW, the works. He chucked it all to become a fishing guide, because he didn't enjoy his job. In doing so, he had to adjust his expectations and lifestyle. He's never been happier and he's making less than $30,000 per year as an apprentice guide.

So . . . your boy left his job as a banker to do something much less lucrative, "and had to adjust his expectations and his lifestyle." No ****?

If you're in this business, you need to realize enjoying a certain quality of life likely won't happen. If that's a problem, you can either adjust your definition of a "certain quality of life" or you can get out of the business.

But if you get out of the business, even if you're making more money, you might hate your job and want to be back at a newspaper.

 

[Pulitzer Wannabe]

Your profession is only a part of who you are, but taking into consideration hours worked and money made in that profession, many other things - ability to take a vacation, feed one's family, enjoy a certain quality of life - stem directly from your place of work.

Then perhaps your expectations of how life should be aren't in line with the career you've chosen.

I know a guy who was making six figures as a banker. Nice house, designer label clothing, BMW, the works. He chucked it all to become a fishing guide, because he didn't enjoy his job. In doing so, he had to adjust his expectations and lifestyle. He's never been happier and he's making less than $30,000 per year as an apprentice guide.

So . . . your boy left his job as a banker to do something much less lucrative, "and had to adjust his expectations and his lifestyle." No ****?

If you're in this business, you need to realize enjoying a certain quality of life likely won't happen. If that's a problem, you can either adjust your definition of a "certain quality of life" or you can get out of the business.

But if you get out of the business, even if you're making more money, you might hate your job and want to be back at a newspaper.

That's fair enough. But it would be nice if there was at least the reasonable hope that you could move up the ladder. I'm not sure that hope is there any more for most people. I mean, there are people who haven't gotten raises in two, three years. Others taking paycuts. Lots and lots laid off.

To me, this is very much stretching the limits of, "What matters is getting to do what you love." There's no security. I think people understand that you give up a wealthy lifestyle when you choose this. But are security for the future and hope too much to ask?

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Valid concerns PW. But don't all industries have layoffs like this?

If you're working for a bank or subprime lender, aren't you worried for your job right now? Auto workers and factory workers have watched their jobs disappear for years now.

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

Inky, you're not close to understanding what I am saying here. Or maybe you are, since your responses bear out my point.

Again, you posted initially that too many people let their jobs define them. I pointed out that your job, because of the fact it takes regular hours from your day and provides the means for the way you live the rest of your life, does help define you.

You respond with proclamations that "This business keeps you from a certain quality!! You can get OUT!!!!!"

And to that, I respond (again) . . . no ****?

Sigh.

If you are in newspapers, there is a certain expectation for how your life will be. If you are a doctor, ditto. If you are a ditch-digger, ditto. If you are a teacher . . . etc.

THAT is my point. No matter what profession you are in, it can dictate certain things as far as your lifestyle and ability to maintain close relationships. You tried to dismiss that idea in this thread, but you clearly believe in it, as evidenced by your last post.

 

[Batman]

When I was 21, fresh out of college, I too had the dream of quickly climbing the ladder. Spend a couple years at the 15K daily I broke in at, move on to a 50K in two or three years, be at the major metro in 10.
Didn't happen.
I found out, rather quickly, that I had no idea what I was doing. I learned, but it took those two or three years. I was still at the 15K. I gave up the dream to focus on improving my skills.

By the time I was 25, I was doing better. I was kicking ass. And I was enjoying myself. I was working with good people, at a good paper, and having fun. I didn't want to leave. I gave up the dream because I was having fun.

By 28, I was a little depressed. Some of the good people had moved on. I hadn't. My hard work hadn't really been rewarded. Despite winning an armful of state press awards I was still getting a small cost of living increase every year and the major metros weren't knocking on the door. I was still at the 15K. I didn't have a girlfriend, nor any hopes on the horizon. I decided it'd be fun to frequent the local casino. As an investment plan (one of many ways I tried to justify it), it was an appalling failure.
It was basically a quarter-life crisis -- other people my age, friends from college, are doing well so why aren't I? What am I doing with my life? Why am I still in this small town, at this small paper? I gave up because I didn't know what else to do.

Now, at 31, I'm married. In the last three years I've seen that this small 15K isn't so bad. We do a lot of things bigger papers wouldn't dream of. Enough of the good people are still around that I enjoy the job. All of those cost of living increases have added up to a decent paycheck every two weeks. I'll never be rich, but if I'm smart I'll never starve either.
On the homefront, the wife has no desire to move. Neither do I. One of the bad things about this business is its nomadic nature. When you wake up 10 years later and look around, sometimes the grass isn't greener in the bigger yard. As far as I know, my small paper is pretty well insulated from things like buyouts and layoffs. I have some seniority in the newsroom now. There's some job security. I get to spend a lot of nights at home with my wife, something I wouldn't be able to do with a "dream job" covering the big state school or a pro team.
I've given up the dream this time because I want to. In ten years I've learned that some things are more important than working your ass to the bone. Not that I'm lazy. I still get out there and work my beats. It's just that my priorities have changed. If yours change, it's not so bad to give up certain things to be happy.

 

[Hammer Pants]

One of my best friends left the business about a year ago, took a job closer to his hometown to start a family, and he's just short of miserable at his 9-to-5.

I love this job almost every day. From the time I realized I wasn't going to play baseball for a living, I have wanted to do this. I have been VERY fortunate to get where I am at 25, and I still want to see how far I can go. If I have to leave for family reasons, I will. But until then, this is what I want to do.

 

[BRoth]

I think I'm going to be making this decision in about three months. It's about 60-40 to look into something new. It's hard to get onto here sometimes and see all the horrible stories linked to about layoffs, cuts and all that good stuff.

Then again, three months from now, there may not be many new jobs to be had. coughrecessioncough.

 

[Inky_Wretch]

Piotr, I honestly don't think we are butting heads on this. We aren't seeing eye-to-eye, but we aren't diametrically opposite either.

I freely admit I'm doing a poor job of explaining how I feel. For that, I apologize.

I love newspapering. I didn't get into it until years after college. And I took a five-figure salary decrease to get my first newspaper gig. I knew I'd never get rich in this business, but I'm happier doing it than I ever was in the corporate world. You couldn't pay me enough to go back into it.

My standard of living isn't as high as it would have been if I'd stayed in corporate America. But my standard of happiness wouldn't be as high as it currently is.

 

[Piotr Rasputin]

Inky, we agree. Sorry I got snarky in my last one.

I love this business myself. Hours and salary dictate that I can't do certain things, but I don't care. I married someone understanding, and that's all that matters to me. If I were in another profession, I would do different things, and not having nearly the feeling of making an impact on people.

My current feelings, though, are tempered by the fact that there are three layoff threads today, all dealing with my home state. Hell, this thread too. I can't help but worry about a world where we can go from one day being fine with the minimal pay and long hours because our passion for this business is unbridled . . and then next we can be whacked because a bottom-feeding sonofabitch like Dean Singleton is pulling the strings from his ivory ****ing tower.