Gorby tells it like it is

[Columbo]

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=2182020&page=1

Not finding much to disagree with.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Well, it's been four hours, and this one hasn't gotten hideously ugly.
We may have dodged a bullet here, folks.

 

[WHA73]

Whew, I feel complete now that I have Gorby's take

 

[spaceman]

Oh **** it. Russia sucks.

 

[hondo]

To paraphrase one of my favorite writers, P.J. O'Rourke, Gorby presided over the fall of communism much in the same way Hirohito presided over the fall of Japan when the big one hit Hiroshim and Nagasaki. To give Gorbachov credit for ending the Cold War is like giving the loser of a 70-0 football game credit for ending the game because the clock ran out when they were in possession. We WON the Cold War. Totalitariianism in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe (it was never communism in the strictest sense) collapsed because it was an evil, morally bankrupt system that killed millions, enslaved even more and denied the basics of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Gorby was just the poor sap who was at the rudder when that ship ran aground.

And he's bitching because we have a "winner's complex?" Hey, tough ****. I'm tired of apologizing because we're the only superpower left (and were the only superpower back in the Cold War, because they had a system built on ideologial smoke and mirrors).

Blow me Gorby.

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

To paraphrase one of my favorite writers, P.J. O'Rourke, Gorby presided over the fall of communism much in the same way Hirohito presided over the fall of Japan when the big one hit Hiroshim and Nagasaki. To give Gorbachov credit for ending the Cold War is like giving the loser of a 70-0 football game credit for ending the game because the clock ran out when they were in possession. We WON the Cold War.

To give Reagan the credit for ending the Cold War is like giving the backup quarterback credit for winning the big game because he took the kneel down. He DID NOT WIN the Cold War.

 

[Buck]

Who said anything about Reagan?

 

[WHA73]

To paraphrase one of my favorite writers, P.J. O'Rourke, Gorby presided over the fall of communism much in the same way Hirohito presided over the fall of Japan when the big one hit Hiroshim and Nagasaki. To give Gorbachov credit for ending the Cold War is like giving the loser of a 70-0 football game credit for ending the game because the clock ran out when they were in possession. We WON the Cold War.

To give Reagan the credit for ending the Cold War is like giving the backup quarterback credit for winning the big game because he took the kneel down. He DID NOT WIN the Cold War.

Revisionist history rant in 5...4....3....2....

 

[Guy_Incognito]

To paraphrase one of my favorite writers, P.J. O'Rourke, Gorby presided over the fall of communism much in the same way Hirohito presided over the fall of Japan when the big one hit Hiroshim and Nagasaki. To give Gorbachov credit for ending the Cold War is like giving the loser of a 70-0 football game credit for ending the game because the clock ran out when they were in possession. We WON the Cold War.

To give Clinton the credit for the economy of the '90s is like giving the backup quarterback credit for winning the big game because he took the kneel down.

This is fun, can we play too?

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

It might have been Monica who took that kneel down.

 

[HejiraHenry]

To paraphrase one of my favorite writers, P.J. O'Rourke, Gorby presided over the fall of communism much in the same way Hirohito presided over the fall of Japan when the big one hit Hiroshim and Nagasaki. To give Gorbachov credit for ending the Cold War is like giving the loser of a 70-0 football game credit for ending the game because the clock ran out when they were in possession. We WON the Cold War.

To give Reagan the credit for ending the Cold War is like giving the backup quarterback credit for winning the big game because he took the kneel down. He DID NOT WIN the Cold War.

Bull****.
Your Cold-War winners: Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II. You could look it up.

 

[dog428]

Oh, for the love of God, surely we're not so partisan that we can't give credit where credit's due.

Reagan played a huge role in ending the Cold War. Bottom line. You can't argue that, really. Yeah, some other **** happened and all, but come on, the guy was in office, he did some good stuff. I've got no problem with giving him some credit.

Same as no one else here should have a problem giving Clinton credit for the economy of the 90s. Was he in the right place at the right time to get some good help? Absolutely. But he was also smart enough to do some good things, not do some dumb things and poke that economy along.

Give em both credit.

And really, I see no need in pulling out the Gorby card at this point and time. Come on now. Fredo's breaking a law a week and has more scandals in the air right now than most presidents had in full terms. I think we can handle this **** in-house.

 

[Smallpotatoes]

Tonight, I heard Doug Urbanski (who the **** is he?) say that the Cold War is not over.
Huh?

 

[Hed bust]

Tonight, I heard Doug Urbanski (who the **** is he?) say that the Cold War is not over.
Huh?

In some small pockets of far eastern Europe ...
Sort of like that episode of Gilligan's Island where the marooned Japanese soldier won't admit the war ever ended.

 

[Football_Bat]

Well, there's North Korea and Cuba.

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

To paraphrase one of my favorite writers, P.J. O'Rourke, Gorby presided over the fall of communism much in the same way Hirohito presided over the fall of Japan when the big one hit Hiroshim and Nagasaki. To give Gorbachov credit for ending the Cold War is like giving the loser of a 70-0 football game credit for ending the game because the clock ran out when they were in possession. We WON the Cold War.

To give Reagan the credit for ending the Cold War is like giving the backup quarterback credit for winning the big game because he took the kneel down. He DID NOT WIN the Cold War.

Bull****.
Your Cold-War winners: Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II. You could look it up.

Go back to skool, Henry. Maybe the local ding dong community college will let you audit a course.

 

[zeke12]

There's a school of though out there that not only is the Cold War not over, but that we're still fighting the ending battles of WWI right now in Iraq.

Not endorsing it, mind you, but not dismissing it, either. All a matter of perception, I guess.

And dog's post is spot on. Reagan gets some credit, as do Pjp and Gorbachev, though I think his better efforts were in guiding the aftermath.

 

[Herbert Anchovy]

The Cold War died of natural causes. If Fredo were president then, he would have been taking a victory lap for that one, too.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

To paraphrase one of my favorite writers, P.J. O'Rourke, Gorby presided over the fall of communism much in the same way Hirohito presided over the fall of Japan when the big one hit Hiroshim and Nagasaki. To give Gorbachov credit for ending the Cold War is like giving the loser of a 70-0 football game credit for ending the game because the clock ran out when they were in possession. We WON the Cold War.

To give Reagan the credit for ending the Cold War is like giving the backup quarterback credit for winning the big game because he took the kneel down. He DID NOT WIN the Cold War.

Bull****.
Your Cold-War winners: Reagan, Thatcher, Pope John Paul II. You could look it up.

Go back to skool, Henry. Maybe the local ding dong community college will let you audit a course.

One of the real fun things in this debate is going back and reading what Reagan's acolytes in the press -- especially George Will -- were writing about these events in real time. Most of them believed Gorbachev was running a ruse to "buy time" until the mighty USSR could steamroll us all.

 

[Gold]

The Russians lost the Cold War, ultimately, because they invaded a foreign country (Afghanistan), overextended themselves in a military sense, and an economy which was weak, collapsed. If it was a moral or economic failing, the Communists would have fallen before Reagan ever became president. Reagan pretty much told Gorbachev when they were in Iceland that the Soviets couldn't outspend the US in terms of the military. The result in our economy was increasing budget deficits during the Reagan years, and in 1986 Congress passed new tax laws which raised taxes; yeah, they said it wasn't a tax increase but when revenues increased that much, that's a tax increase. The deficits continued thru the Bush years, so that was a price we paid. I mention that to show the effect on our economy, but that was like a bad cold; the Russians got pneumonia and their economy collapsed.

Gorby deserves credit in recognizing that and not digging his heels in and risking a nuclear confrontation or exchange. The US would have come out better in any conflict. Both Kennedy and Reagan talked about the Russians passing us in missiles and military strength, but that was political bluster and was never a fact. A nuclear exchange would have been a disaster for the world. Gorbachev pretty much had to manage the mess he had been given by the three or four old creeps before him. He was not popular in Russia because of what he did, any maybe it was a Profiles In Courage type of thing.