Final Four and NCAA Title Game Thread

[poindexter]

The NCAA title game is getting to be like the Super Bowl. Only in rare cases does the hype match the game.

WTF? There have been some fantastic super bowls this past decade.

Rams - Titans
Pats - Rams
Giants - Pats
Steelers - Cards

The final four has gone to **** - but don't take the super bowl down with it.

And there have been some good NCAA title games. But do you also care to defend: Ravens-Giants, Steelers-Seahawks, Bucs-Raiders, Colts-Bears?

I would easily put up with those stinkers u mentioned to get the games I mentioned. The four super bowls I listed are all-time classics.

 

[GB-Hack]

I might even include Pats-Panthers on that list, if only for the fourth quarter.

 

[Boobie Miles]

And boy was I wrong on this one - I figured Michigan State had everything going for them and would play some great defense, keep the game close and find that push at the end. That's what they've done against the top opponents in this tournament.

They were never in it.

This was a tremendous effort by North Carolina - a great team by every definition.

I would like to ask some of our resident "he got outcoached" experts if Tom Izzo all of the sudden got stupid?

I mean, he didn't have his team prepared, they didn't shoot well, they didn't play well, they couldn't defend and didn't protect the basketball.

It is funny thing isn't it --it is hard to be a genius and have a great game plan when your guys don't make shots and your guys don't play well, despite all of your gipper speeches and halftime adjustments.

That's what happens when you are dealing with 18-22 year olds -- some nights, they just don't play well which, as I've said throughout this tournament, is what makes the "out coaching" silliness exactly that.

No idea why I'm even bothering, but don't you think your reasons pregame for an MSU win were just as silly, if not more, than the "out-coaching" reason?

I just think it's odd because I basically agree with your final paragraph which seemed to be your argument throughout the Final Four, but the destiny and revenge crap flew in the face of that thinking. So I don't see how you can turn around and go back to calling out others for their "silliness" when you offered up those reason for a possible MSU win.

And you apparently can't read as in the first sentence I admitted I was wrong in thinking that destiny, defense and momentum would carry Michigan State.

Right, but my greater point is that line of thinking seemed to contradict everything you had been harping on. I'm saying I agreed with your point in that post I quoted about "players playing well on a given night" as the main determining factor in winning and losing. So for you to turn around and say that destiny and revenge would be important factors...I don't know it just seemed to go against everything you had been so strenuously arguing for the first 15 pages of this thread.

Again, I'm not fully sure why I even bothered to enter this fray. Feel free to have the last word because I really don't care that much.

 

[Boobie Miles]

And boy was I wrong on this one - I figured Michigan State had everything going for them and would play some great defense, keep the game close and find that push at the end. That's what they've done against the top opponents in this tournament.

They were never in it.

This was a tremendous effort by North Carolina - a great team by every definition.

I would like to ask some of our resident "he got outcoached" experts if Tom Izzo all of the sudden got stupid?

I mean, he didn't have his team prepared, they didn't shoot well, they didn't play well, they couldn't defend and didn't protect the basketball.

It is funny thing isn't it --it is hard to be a genius and have a great game plan when your guys don't make shots and your guys don't play well, despite all of your gipper speeches and halftime adjustments.

That's what happens when you are dealing with 18-22 year olds -- some nights, they just don't play well which, as I've said throughout this tournament, is what makes the "out coaching" silliness exactly that.

No idea why I'm even bothering, but don't you think your reasons pregame for an MSU win were just as silly, if not more, than the "out-coaching" reason?

I just think it's odd because I basically agree with your final paragraph which seemed to be your argument throughout the Final Four, but the destiny and revenge crap flew in the face of that thinking. So I don't see how you can turn around and go back to calling out others for their "silliness" when you offered up those reason for a possible MSU win.

No outcoaching. MSU played like ****, UNC played real well. That's all there is.

Yeah, I know. That's the point I was making. Well I guess my point was more that destiny and revenge are even sillier than "out-coaching." But in general my point was that it's really determined by the kids on the floor not any of that other stuff.

 

[Starman]

Apparently Jason Whitlock was smelling something else when he smelled "destiny" in terms of a Michigan State victory Monday night. And anybody who believes that Roy Williams is a better coach this morning than he was Monday morning, or that Tom Izzo is a worse coach than he was 24 hours ago is not terribly smart.

Izzo froze at the controls during UNC's early run.

He should have called time out when UNC took an 8-3 lead, and slapped on a full-court press (they were actually somewhat effective in the 2nd half using a press). Of course UNC would probably have shredded it, but so what; their only chance was to do something dramatic to seize the momentum back and get the crowd back into the game. UNC completely shut up the entire crowd within the first 90 seconds of the game.

They were so overcome by the "team of destiny" crap that when things started going bad, they were all saying, "this can't be happening! we were supposed to win! we were carrying the hopes and prayers of a whole state on our shoulders!! it's so unfair!!"

 

[mustangj17]

Apparently Jason Whitlock was smelling something else when he smelled "destiny" in terms of a Michigan State victory Monday night. And anybody who believes that Roy Williams is a better coach this morning than he was Monday morning, or that Tom Izzo is a worse coach than he was 24 hours ago is not terribly smart.

Izzo froze at the controls during UNC's early run.

He should have called time out when UNC took an 8-3 lead, and slapped on a full-court press (they were actually somewhat effective in the 2nd half using a press). Of course UNC would probably have shredded it, but so what; their only chance was to do something dramatic to seize the momentum back and get the crowd back into the game. UNC completely shut up the entire crowd within the first 90 seconds of the game.

They were so overcome by the "team of destiny" crap that when things started going bad, they were all saying, "this can't be happening! we were supposed to win! we were carrying the hopes and prayers of a whole state on our shoulders!! it's so unfair!!"

Or they could have quit turning the ball over and maybe tried to make a free throw. I've never seen Izzo's team play that sloppy.

 

[spnited]

They were so overcome by the "team of destiny" crap that when things started going bad, they were all saying, "this can't be happening! we were supposed to win! we were carrying the hopes and prayers of a whole state on our shoulders!! it's so unfair!!"

Yeah, right, That's what happeend.

It could be that a good team got dominated by a much better team -- for the second time this season.
Nah, that couldn't have been it.

 

[Starman]

They were so overcome by the "team of destiny" crap that when things started going bad, they were all saying, "this can't be happening! we were supposed to win! we were carrying the hopes and prayers of a whole state on our shoulders!! it's so unfair!!"

Yeah, right, That's what happeend.

It could be that a good team got dominated by a much better team -- for the second time this season.
Nah, that couldn't have been it.

Sparty's only chance was a puncher's chance -- they had to smack UNC in the mouth right off the bat. Instead they got smacked in the mouth themselves and rolled over and died.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

Star, as I said last night, the matchups weren't there for them. They had nobody who could do anything resembling defense on Carolina's big people. Davis, Thompson, and Hansbrough got what shots they wanted at will.
No defense can fix that.

 

[Sam Mills 51]

Sparty's only chance was a puncher's chance -- they had to smack UNC in the mouth right off the bat. Instead they got smacked in the mouth themselves and rolled over and died.

Best breakdown yet.

If Michigan State hits Chapel Hill in the mouth right away, it's a game. It's how the Spartans beat UConn (not coincidentally, Pittsburgh did the same thing twice in beating the Huskies).

Chapel Hill is average defensively, and had very little heart excluding Tyler Hansbrough and Danny Green. But they were an offensive juggernaut and could run all day and night, too. Therefore ...

 

[cwilson3]

Heart is overrated when you have talent. Plus I think that's been a bull**** excuse for people to pick against UNC all year. They were the best team on day one, and they lost a few games along the way, but won pretty easily when it mattered.

 

[Sam Mills 51]

Heart is overrated when you have talent. Plus I think that's been a bull**** excuse for people to pick against UNC all year. They were the best team on day one, and they lost a few games along the way, but won pretty easily when it mattered.

Heart is not an excuse, it's a fact. It didn't keep Chapel Hill from being the best team this season, but there's little heart outside Hansbrough and Green.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

Matchups again are why I always thought Pitt would have been the best opponent for NC in the Final Four. Their big guys would have pushed the Carolina bigs four or five feet away from their shooting comfort zones. Not that they would have won, but I think they had the best chance.

 

[cwilson3]

Heart is a copout. Plus they won so it doesn't matter.

 

[Michael_ Gee]

Carolina looked to me as if it was playing with more than enough emotional intensity. At least in the first half, which is all I watched.

 

[cwilson3]

Michael, they left their hearts in the locker room, they played that half with their livers.

 

[Joel_Goodsen]

If your game plan is to "make shots so we can press," that's a stupid game plan. You better be able to play halfcourt defense and play it well. "Good defense doesn't take a night off" isn't just a cliche. It's an ironclad truth of basketball. Pittino was too arrogant or stupid, you pick, to come up with a defensive game plan in the not so unlikely event his team shot poorly.

Actually Louisville played a lot more zone in that game against Michigan State than they had done all year. And the adjustments Pitino made at the half were to take Sutan out of the equation and those adjustments worked if you consider he scored 17 of his 19 before the half.

Defense wasn't the problem for Louisville that night, offense was.

The Cardinals gave up 64 points -- the same they did two nights earlier against Arizona and eight less than they gave up against Siena. They only gave up 62 points a game on average for the season.

The fact that you are harping on a bad defensive game plan as well as the fact that Louisville wanted to press, which was the Cardinals bread and butter is strange to be honest, especially in a game in which the team gave up only 64 points.

The problem was offense, they scored 22 points less than their average that night and mostly because they shot horribly from the outside -- again, their bread and butter -- and there is no way to make adjustments when your guys can't hit shots.

It happened to Michigan State last night and it happened to Villanova on Saturday and while North Carolina's defense deserves some credit for that, both teams missed a lot of open looks they hadn't missed in previous games.

 

[zagoshe]

I don't see anyone here who believes that.
Worst. Tournament. Ever.

Yes, because it is so awful when the best teams win.....

 

[Michael_ Gee]

Zag, nobody's quarreling with the outcome, only the long, straight, dull stretch of sports interstate we took to get there. Aside from Pitt-Villanova, there were no games I will remember past Memorial Day. I'll admit I didn't see Ohio State-Siena.

 

[Moderator1]

The one game I saw was pretty damn good. Disappointing but good.