Final Four and NCAA Title Game Thread

[DavidPoole]

Apparently Jason Whitlock was smelling something else when he smelled "destiny" in terms of a Michigan State victory Monday night. And anybody who believes that Roy Williams is a better coach this morning than he was Monday morning, or that Tom Izzo is a worse coach than he was 24 hours ago is not terribly smart.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

I don't see anyone here who believes that.
Worst. Tournament. Ever.

 

[king cranium maximus IV]

I don't see anyone here who believes that.
Worst. Tournament. Ever.

Tied with '07.

 

[Pancamo]

Boring tournament. Boring final.

Will ESPN stop with the "they came back for to win the title" crap. They came back because their draft stock sucked.

 

[Fenian_Bastard]

Well, Ellington's doesn't any more.

 

[Boobie Miles]

Whose players are these? Because we all know Roy can't win with his own recruits.

KU gets an assist with Hansbrough, who would have gone to KU, except that dadgum coach left for Carolina Blue. In all seriousness, though, it's good to see Roy produce a team so many of us thought he would deliver through the years -- one every bit as good as advertised to begin the season.

I know it's tough to win the national championship. I'm not taking away from the accomplishment. But this ain't exactly a great coaching job. This is about like Doc Rivers being called a great NBA coach for winning the title last year with Boston. If UNC would've been beaten by anyone other than maybe UConn, this whole season would have been greatly disappointing for the Tar Heels.

Thing is recruiting is a HUGE part of college coaching. I think the Rivers comparison is flawed because Rivers had little to nothing to do with acquiring those players. Williams had everything to do with acquiring his. Every coach in the country conceivably can have any player. The fact that Williams got the best ones and they won it all makes him a great college coach.

 

[Boobie Miles]

The One Shining Moment: "Onions, Double Order!" - I think it occurred with 8 minutes left in a game. How sad. The half-court shot to end the first half was somewhat sweet, but wouldn't even make the cut in most years.

I'll agree with the sentiment that this was a weak tournament, but you're pretty far off on this one. That was the kid's second big shot of the game -- the first came to tie it at the end of OT and the second "double order" shot came at the end of double OT to give Siena the win. Not an all-time great moment or anything seeing as how it was an 8-9 game, but certainly worthy of being included.

 

[Boobie Miles]

And boy was I wrong on this one - I figured Michigan State had everything going for them and would play some great defense, keep the game close and find that push at the end. That's what they've done against the top opponents in this tournament.

They were never in it.

This was a tremendous effort by North Carolina - a great team by every definition.

I would like to ask some of our resident "he got outcoached" experts if Tom Izzo all of the sudden got stupid?

I mean, he didn't have his team prepared, they didn't shoot well, they didn't play well, they couldn't defend and didn't protect the basketball.

It is funny thing isn't it --it is hard to be a genius and have a great game plan when your guys don't make shots and your guys don't play well, despite all of your gipper speeches and halftime adjustments.

That's what happens when you are dealing with 18-22 year olds -- some nights, they just don't play well which, as I've said throughout this tournament, is what makes the "out coaching" silliness exactly that.

No idea why I'm even bothering, but don't you think your reasons pregame for an MSU win were just as silly, if not more, than the "out-coaching" reason?

I just think it's odd because I basically agree with your final paragraph which seemed to be your argument throughout the Final Four, but the destiny and revenge crap flew in the face of that thinking. So I don't see how you can turn around and go back to calling out others for their "silliness" when you offered up those reason for a possible MSU win.

 

[Cosmo]

As I said before, I really believe this was the worst tournament of my college watching lifetime. Again, not a smack on the lack of mid-majors or Cinderellas. That I don't care about. Having Siena play Michigan State in the Elite Eight wouldn't have been any more interesting than having Louisville.

Save for a few games -- the Friday late night session in the first round; MSU-Kansas; Pitt-Villanova -- this event lacked any intrigue at all. The Final Four was a snooze. None of the games terribly competitive. Three of the four regional finals were routs. You had a 40-point win in the Sweet 16 for crying out loud.

When do the NHL playoffs start?

 

[93Devil]

As I said before, I really believe this was the worst tournament of my college watching lifetime. Again, not a smack on the lack of mid-majors or Cinderellas. That I don't care about. Having Siena play Michigan State in the Elite Eight wouldn't have been any more interesting than having Louisville.

Save for a few games -- the Friday late night session in the first round; MSU-Kansas; Pitt-Villanova -- this event lacked any intrigue at all. The Final Four was a snooze. None of the games terribly competitive. Three of the four regional finals were routs. You had a 40-point win in the Sweet 16 for crying out loud.

When do the NHL playoffs start?

This might have been worst tourney, but it still was fun to watch. That says a lot about college hoops.

The MSU/UConn game is the one I will remember.

 

[PopeDirkBenedict]

The NCAA title game is getting to be like the Super Bowl. Only in rare cases does the hype match the game. In the last 10 title games, there have been three really good games (Cuse-KU; UNC-Illinois; KU-Memphis), two awful games (Florida-UCLA; UNC-MSU) and five games with varying degrees of mediocrity (MSU-Florida; Duke-Arizona; Maryland-IU; UConn-GT; Florida-Ohio State).

 

[mustangj17]

And boy was I wrong on this one - I figured Michigan State had everything going for them and would play some great defense, keep the game close and find that push at the end. That's what they've done against the top opponents in this tournament.

They were never in it.

This was a tremendous effort by North Carolina - a great team by every definition.

I would like to ask some of our resident "he got outcoached" experts if Tom Izzo all of the sudden got stupid?

I mean, he didn't have his team prepared, they didn't shoot well, they didn't play well, they couldn't defend and didn't protect the basketball.

It is funny thing isn't it --it is hard to be a genius and have a great game plan when your guys don't make shots and your guys don't play well, despite all of your gipper speeches and halftime adjustments.

That's what happens when you are dealing with 18-22 year olds -- some nights, they just don't play well which, as I've said throughout this tournament, is what makes the "out coaching" silliness exactly that.

No idea why I'm even bothering, but don't you think your reasons pregame for an MSU win were just as silly, if not more, than the "out-coaching" reason?

I just think it's odd because I basically agree with your final paragraph which seemed to be your argument throughout the Final Four, but the destiny and revenge crap flew in the face of that thinking. So I don't see how you can turn around and go back to calling out others for their "silliness" when you offered up those reason for a possible MSU win.

No outcoaching. MSU played like ****, UNC played real well. That's all there is.

 

[zagoshe]

Game-day coaching is under-rated by those who have never coached a game of basketball.

Williams prepared his team well for that game, though. There was no coach, nor any amount of coaching Izzo could have done, that would have made a difference last night. Like Izzo said before hand, "If they play well and we play well, they'll win." Well, UNC played well, and MSU didn't. So you got what you got -- a game that was never close.

Coaching comes into play huge in close games between good teams. In the MSU-Louisville and MSU-UConn games, it was almost assuredly the deciding factor.

No, it wasn't.

Louisville didn't make shots and couldn't get their press rolling. They missed open shots, shots they almost always make - there is no adjustment for that. There is also no adjustment for A.J. Price going 5-for-20.

And again, Tom Izzo found out last night that he's not nearly as much of a genius when his team doesn't make shots.

 

[PeteyPirate]

He also found out that destiny doesn't mean ****.

 

[zagoshe]

And boy was I wrong on this one - I figured Michigan State had everything going for them and would play some great defense, keep the game close and find that push at the end. That's what they've done against the top opponents in this tournament.

They were never in it.

This was a tremendous effort by North Carolina - a great team by every definition.

I would like to ask some of our resident "he got outcoached" experts if Tom Izzo all of the sudden got stupid?

I mean, he didn't have his team prepared, they didn't shoot well, they didn't play well, they couldn't defend and didn't protect the basketball.

It is funny thing isn't it --it is hard to be a genius and have a great game plan when your guys don't make shots and your guys don't play well, despite all of your gipper speeches and halftime adjustments.

That's what happens when you are dealing with 18-22 year olds -- some nights, they just don't play well which, as I've said throughout this tournament, is what makes the "out coaching" silliness exactly that.

No idea why I'm even bothering, but don't you think your reasons pregame for an MSU win were just as silly, if not more, than the "out-coaching" reason?

I just think it's odd because I basically agree with your final paragraph which seemed to be your argument throughout the Final Four, but the destiny and revenge crap flew in the face of that thinking. So I don't see how you can turn around and go back to calling out others for their "silliness" when you offered up those reason for a possible MSU win.

And you apparently can't read as in the first sentence I admitted I was wrong in thinking that destiny, defense and momentum would carry Michigan State.

Did you hear that some of you -- I admitted I was wrong, which is something I've done plenty of times when I am wrong.

Some of you should try it.

 

[zagoshe]

And boy was I wrong on this one - I figured Michigan State had everything going for them and would play some great defense, keep the game close and find that push at the end. That's what they've done against the top opponents in this tournament.

They were never in it.

This was a tremendous effort by North Carolina - a great team by every definition.

I would like to ask some of our resident "he got outcoached" experts if Tom Izzo all of the sudden got stupid?

I mean, he didn't have his team prepared, they didn't shoot well, they didn't play well, they couldn't defend and didn't protect the basketball.

It is funny thing isn't it --it is hard to be a genius and have a great game plan when your guys don't make shots and your guys don't play well, despite all of your gipper speeches and halftime adjustments.

That's what happens when you are dealing with 18-22 year olds -- some nights, they just don't play well which, as I've said throughout this tournament, is what makes the "out coaching" silliness exactly that.

No idea why I'm even bothering, but don't you think your reasons pregame for an MSU win were just as silly, if not more, than the "out-coaching" reason?

I just think it's odd because I basically agree with your final paragraph which seemed to be your argument throughout the Final Four, but the destiny and revenge crap flew in the face of that thinking. So I don't see how you can turn around and go back to calling out others for their "silliness" when you offered up those reason for a possible MSU win.

No outcoaching. MSU played like ****, UNC played real well. That's all there is.

But, but, but, but -- who is that guy who wears a suit who is supposed to get the kids to play to their ability? What is his job?

 

[poindexter]

The NCAA title game is getting to be like the Super Bowl. Only in rare cases does the hype match the game.

WTF? There have been some fantastic super bowls this past decade.

Rams - Titans
Pats - Rams
Giants - Pats
Steelers - Cards

The final four has gone to **** - but don't take the super bowl down with it.

 

[king cranium maximus IV]

The NCAA title game is getting to be like the Super Bowl. Only in rare cases does the hype match the game. In the last 10 title games, there have been three really good games (Cuse-KU; UNC-Illinois; KU-Memphis), two awful games (Florida-UCLA; UNC-MSU) and five games with varying degrees of mediocrity (MSU-Florida; Duke-Arizona; Maryland-IU; UConn-GT; Florida-Ohio State).

Duke-Arizona was at least decent. Arizona got it down to a one possession game a few times in the waning minutes before Battier/FT shooting put it away. The '01 FF also had that Duke-Maryland game, so.

 

[PopeDirkBenedict]

The NCAA title game is getting to be like the Super Bowl. Only in rare cases does the hype match the game.

WTF? There have been some fantastic super bowls this past decade.

Rams - Titans
Pats - Rams
Giants - Pats
Steelers - Cards

The final four has gone to **** - but don't take the super bowl down with it.

And there have been some good NCAA title games. But do you also care to defend: Ravens-Giants, Steelers-Seahawks, Bucs-Raiders, Colts-Bears?

 

[GB-Hack]

The NCAA title game is getting to be like the Super Bowl. Only in rare cases does the hype match the game.

WTF? There have been some fantastic super bowls this past decade.

Rams - Titans
Pats - Rams
Giants - Pats
Steelers - Cards

The final four has gone to **** - but don't take the super bowl down with it.

Yeah, completely agree. The days of the Super Bowl not living up to the hype are far in the distance, with the last two both being thrilling.