Fighting in professional sports

[wisportswriter]

There are at least a couple bench-clearing brawls in MLB every year. You rarely see a suspension longer than a handful of games.

There are fights in every second NHL game. (Or so I'm told. I don't get the Outdoor Life network.) You don't hear much about them.

Have a little throwdown in the NBA, and the sports world tips itself upside down: fines, suspensions into the double digits, endless sports radio/TV yapping, condemnation from David Stern on down through Joe Fan.

Discuss.

 

[Starman]

You may be right. ::)

 

[shotglass]

Well, there are "little throwdowns," and then there's...

 

[wisportswriter]

You may be right. ::)

About what? I wasn't aware I ventured an opinion.

 

[cranberry]

David Stern has been going way over the top the past two years trying to pander to corporate sponsors who didn't like the NBA's street culture. The fight in Detroit was probably the catalyst. Since then, he's instituted a "get tough with the players" policy, including the dress code last year. He gets away with treating players like children because the union has weakened considerably in recent years. But considering this is happening in the league with the highest percentage of African Americans, I'm somewhat surprised we haven't seen the race card played even more often on this issue.

 

[ondeadline]

In today's NHL, there are no fights in more than half the games.

 

[Claws for Concern]

Growing up on the NHL, I saw my share of bench clearing brawls. For years now, that stuff never happens in the NHL. It's better policed than most other pro sports when it comes to bench clearing brawls.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

The big difference between the NHL & NBA is padding.

 

[Totally Krossed Out]

I have no problem with Stern trying to clean up his league. I think trying to get fights out of the league is noble.

My problem is the public's and media's reaction to the fight in relation to other sports. The Barrett-Pyrzenski fight was much worse this baseball season. When Roger Clemens' roid rage led to him throwing a baseball bat at Piazza, that was much worse. When Jason Varitek did essentially the same thing to A-Rod as Melo did to Collins, he was considered a warrior and a team leader for sticking up for his teammates. When the Yankees/Red Sox brawl escalted to the point where Pedro tackeled Zimmer, it wasn't as big of a deal in the public arena as this. When the football player stepped on the dude's face last month, it wasn't as big of a deal as this.

There's clearly racism involved. The public and media sees the tattoos and the cornrows of the NBA, whereas that stuff is hidden in football. When something happens in football - Ray Lewis or Tank Williams - it's considered an anomoly. If something like that happened in the NBA, it'd be a black eye for the league.

Ironically, the NFL has much more real thugs than the NBA.

 

[cranberry]

I have no problem with Stern trying to clean up his league. I think trying to get fights out of the league is noble.

My problem is the public's and media's reaction to the fight in relation to other sports. The Barrett-Pyrzenski fight was much worse this baseball season. When Roger Clemens' roid rage led to him throwing a baseball bat at Piazza, that was much worse. When Jason Varitek did essentially the same thing to A-Rod as Melo did to Collins, he was considered a warrior and a team leader for sticking up for his teammates. When the Yankees/Red Sox brawl escalted to the point where Pedro tackeled Zimmer, it wasn't as big of a deal in the public arena as this. When the football player stepped on the dude's face last month, it wasn't as big of a deal as this.

The brawls you cite didn't spill into the stands. That, to me, is a fairly important distinction.

 

[Totally Krossed Out]

The brawls you cite didn't spill into the stands. That, to me, is a fairly important distinction.


[/quote]


Well then, that's what Stern needs to reevaluate. He needs to make it so when there's a hard flagrant foul, the players don't land in the laps of spectators. If JR Smith landed somewhere else, then that's where the fight would have happened. It's not the players going into the stands to fight, it's the fans essentially being on the court.

I mean, should they have all taken a deep breath and walked to center court?

 

[heyabbott]

If Stern & the NCAA would crack down on the rampant discrimination against American born whites attempting to play basketball at the highest level there would be less microscopic scrutuniy on the young men who currently earn their livings in the NBA.

Seriously though, I think the enhanced scrutiny of NBA fights goes to Kermit Washington's attack on Rudy Tomjonovich[sic]. Also the physical proximity between the spectators and players in the NBA makes for a more personal attachment to the players (which has been marketed to the deteriment of the team game).
Race plays a factor in everything in an integrated American culture, and when African Americans are disproportionately involved in anything, sports and crime especially, the media tends to focus on the surrounding issues.

That said, the problem isn't with Stern's concerns, the problem lies with Selig's lack of balls and the union's strength in baseball.

 

[spnited]

I have no problem with Stern trying to clean up his league. I think trying to get fights out of the league is noble.

My problem is the public's and media's reaction to the fight in relation to other sports. The Barrett-Pyrzenski fight was much worse this baseball season. When Roger Clemens' roid rage led to him throwing a baseball bat at Piazza, that was much worse. When Jason Varitek did essentially the same thing to A-Rod as Melo did to Collins, he was considered a warrior and a team leader for sticking up for his teammates. When the Yankees/Red Sox brawl escalted to the point where Pedro tackeled Zimmer, it wasn't as big of a deal in the public arena as this. When the football player stepped on the dude's face last month, it wasn't as big of a deal as this.

The brawls you cite didn't spill into the stands. That, to me, is a fairly important distinction.

Because in other sports the fans aren't as close to the field/court/ice as they are in basketball.

Meanwhile, while everybody is raising a fuss about the Knicks-Nuggets brawl, Tank Johnson gets arrested on 6 counts of illegal weapons possession for having a small arsenal in his house, his body guard (why the **** does an NFL lineman need a body guard?) gets shot at 3 a.m. Saturday outside some thug club...and the Bears say, oh yeah, he's playing Sunday. We don't think he did anything wrong.

Nine Bengals players have been arrested this season ... I believe 8 of them were playing last night.

Why do the NFL criminals skate while NBA players who have an on-court fight get cruicified?

 

[outofplace]

I have no problem with Stern trying to clean up his league. I think trying to get fights out of the league is noble.

My problem is the public's and media's reaction to the fight in relation to other sports. The Barrett-Pyrzenski fight was much worse this baseball season. When Roger Clemens' roid rage led to him throwing a baseball bat at Piazza, that was much worse. When Jason Varitek did essentially the same thing to A-Rod as Melo did to Collins, he was considered a warrior and a team leader for sticking up for his teammates. When the Yankees/Red Sox brawl escalted to the point where Pedro tackeled Zimmer, it wasn't as big of a deal in the public arena as this. When the football player stepped on the dude's face last month, it wasn't as big of a deal as this.

The brawls you cite didn't spill into the stands. That, to me, is a fairly important distinction.

Because in other sports the fans aren't as close to the field/court/ice as they are in basketball.

Meanwhile, while everybody is raising a fuss about the Knicks-Nuggets brawl, Tank Johnson gets arrested on 6 counts of illegal weapons possession for having a small arsenal in his house, his body guard (why the **** does an NFL lineman need a body guard?) gets shot at 3 a.m. Saturday outside some thug club...and the Bears say, oh yeah, he's playing Sunday. We don't think he did anything wrong.

Nine Bengals players have been arrested this season ... I believe 8 of them were playing last night.

Why do the NFL criminals skate while NBA players who have an on-court fight get cruicified?

Excellent point, especially for the goofball who did bring race into this.

I agree that the Tank Johnson situation is a lot more disturbing than the Knicks-Nuggets brawl. Though I do understand the bodyguard thing. I think you might need somebody just to keep yourself out of fights and other problematic situations.

Hey, Joey Porter doesn't look like somebody I'd want to mess with, either, but he sure could have used somebody watching his back when he got shot in the ass a few years back.

I'm just not sure why these things are handled so differently, except maybe the NFL's ability to control the media better than other sports.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

Someone in SI (Phil Taylor maybe) went through this with the NBA getting a bad rap on this compared to the other sports. I think a big part of it is that the NBA by it's nature (or the way it's evolved - combination), is far more focused on the players individually (only 12, 5 at a time, not hats or helmets) as opposed to the team oriented NFL. If the QB gets arrested, we'll know.

 

[spnited]

We always know who gets arrested, guy.
The problem is the NFL doesn't do anything about it and as oop said the media has their heads up the NFL's collective ass and let's it all slide because those big bad coaches will cut off access if you write something bad about how they pander to their thugs.

Seriously, TO spitting on someone got more attention than Tank Johnson and his stash of guns. WTF?

 

[Chi City 81]

I have no problem with Stern trying to clean up his league. I think trying to get fights out of the league is noble.

My problem is the public's and media's reaction to the fight in relation to other sports. The Barrett-Pyrzenski fight was much worse this baseball season. When Roger Clemens' roid rage led to him throwing a baseball bat at Piazza, that was much worse. When Jason Varitek did essentially the same thing to A-Rod as Melo did to Collins, he was considered a warrior and a team leader for sticking up for his teammates. When the Yankees/Red Sox brawl escalted to the point where Pedro tackeled Zimmer, it wasn't as big of a deal in the public arena as this. When the football player stepped on the dude's face last month, it wasn't as big of a deal as this.

The brawls you cite didn't spill into the stands. That, to me, is a fairly important distinction.

Because in other sports the fans aren't as close to the field/court/ice as they are in basketball.

Meanwhile, while everybody is raising a fuss about the Knicks-Nuggets brawl, Tank Johnson gets arrested on 6 counts of illegal weapons possession for having a small arsenal in his house, his body guard (why the **** does an NFL lineman need a body guard?) gets shot at 3 a.m. Saturday outside some thug club...and the Bears say, oh yeah, he's playing Sunday. We don't think he did anything wrong.

Nine Bengals players have been arrested this season ... I believe 8 of them were playing last night.

Why do the NFL criminals skate while NBA players who have an on-court fight get cruicified?

Ummm, spnited, the Bears suspended Johnson before the night club thing ever happened. He didn't play Sunday.

 

[spnited]

Well, doc, that's why I get for believing an ESPN report that he was going to play.

 

[Guy_Incognito]

We always know who gets arrested, guy.
The problem is the NFL doesn't do anything about it and as oop said the media has their heads up the NFL's collective ass and let's it all slide because those big bad coaches will cut off access if you write something bad about how they pander to their thugs.

Seriously, TO spitting on someone got more attention than Tank Johnson and his stash of guns. WTF?

Had it been TO with the guns & Tank spitting, they'd have focused on the guns, for the same reason that PAris Hilton makes news blowing her nose, and the local murders are listed on page 25.

 

[cranberry]

We always know who gets arrested, guy.
The problem is the NFL doesn't do anything about it and as oop said the media has their heads up the NFL's collective ass and let's it all slide because those big bad coaches will cut off access if you write something bad about how they pander to their thugs.

Seriously, TO spitting on someone got more attention than Tank Johnson and his stash of guns. WTF?

Had it been TO with the guns & Tank spitting, they'd have focused on the guns, for the same reason that PAris Hilton makes news blowing her nose, and the local murders are listed on page 25.

TO doesn't wear underwear?