Entitlement

[Tom Petty]

so, just what is broadway joe entitled to? seems as though, since the numbers are so low, we owe broadway joe, pe and the rest some of the best jobs available in the profession to make sure they approve of quotas.


seems as though many people on this board aren't concerned with equality, it's more about entitlement and not earning a damned thing. doesn't seem quite fair to journalists of any color and/or sex.

 

[Columbo]

so, just what is broadway joe entitled to? seems as though, since the numbers are so low, we owe broadway joe, pe and the rest some of the best jobs available in the profession to make sure they approve of quotas.


seems as though many people on this board aren't concerned with equality, it's more about entitlement and not earning a damned thing. doesn't seem quite fair to journalists of any color and/or sex.

"You're gonna put me out of a job."

Pack up the Plantation, Breakdown

 

[Riddick]

I don't see Wright Thompson complaining. And he earned a great job coming out of college.
If you're good, you'll find a job. Or an employer will find you. But if you're at some 5,000 bi-weekly afternoon paper, maybe you're not as good as you think you are.

 

[Columbo]

I don't see Wright Thompson complaining. And he earned a great job coming out of college.
If you're good, you'll find a job. Or an employer will find you. But if you're at some 5,000 bi-weekly afternoon paper, maybe you're not as good as you think you are.

You aren't really debunking arguments when you are mentioning someone of his caliber getting a job as proof that there is no issue.

Now, Thompson will always be "Quoteless in Kansas City" to me.

But, he is a ****ing stud.

 

[Riddick]

I'm just saying, great papers hire great writers out of college. They go out and find them. Whether it's Thompson, or Michael Smith earning a job covering the Patriots right out of college.
It's not just about skill, but about luck.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

The sense of entitlement that many young writers in this business have disgusts me...

Yes, some of us are luckier than others and start at bigger papers for whatever reason... But if this is really what you want to do, give it five years before you start bitching left and right...

If they hire you to cover preps, cover the hell out of it. Don't sit there and complain that you don't get to write a seventh sidebar from the NFL game.

If you're good in this business, and you're willing to apply for jobs and move around a bit, some paper will find you... If you reach 30 and you still have never been promoted and no paper responds when you apply for every job out there, maybe this isn't the business for you. There's no shame in that. I respect the people who realize that and move on...

I hate to resurrect the name of the legendary Rachel Lenzi, but she's the classic example of someone who was willing to move around and has now done quite well for herself.

 

[tonysoprano]

Oh, a subject that gets my blood boiling.

Work hard. Work hard. Work hard. I'm not going to go off about this. If young writers are truly talented, they'll prove it. Others will look ridiculous.

Your work will speak for itself. It's the ultimate 'scoreboard'.

 

[Lugnuts]

About a year ago, I got a packet sent to me that had some newspaper articles in it. One of them was by Rachel Lenzi, and it was excellent. I really enjoyed it.

Mizzou's so right about moving around... same thing for tv. I know a young guy who seems to have potential, but he refuses to leave NYC. So he gripes and complains he's never going to get an on-air job. The hardest part about moving around is the relationship thing. It's tricky.

 

[broadway joe]

so, just what is broadway joe entitled to? seems as though, since the numbers are so low, we owe broadway joe, pe and the rest some of the best jobs available in the profession to make sure they approve of quotas.


seems as though many people on this board aren't concerned with equality, it's more about entitlement and not earning a damned thing. doesn't seem quite fair to journalists of any color and/or sex.

Seems like you're not getting a lot of support for your point, Tom, whatever it was.

 

[Mizzougrad96]

I have friends who took part-time jobs at big papers hoping they would eventually be hired full-time... I'm not saying it never happens, but usually it doesn't and they're bitter now because they're not getting full benefits or a competitive salary...

I have a hard time being sympathetic when they're unwilling to leave. They act like going to a smaller paper is beneath them, which is idiotic... There are people who actually believe they're going to go from 32 hour preps writer to major college or pro jobs with no steps in between...

 

[DyePack]

I have friends who took part-time jobs at big papers hoping they would eventually be hired full-time... I'm not saying it never happens, but usually it doesn't and they're bitter now because they're not getting full benefits or a competitive salary...

I have a hard time being sympathetic when they're unwilling to leave. They act like going to a smaller paper is beneath them, which is idiotic... There are people who actually believe they're going to go from 32 hour preps writer to major college or pro jobs with no steps in between...

This is actually one of the more sensible posts. Up to now, it's been the same back and forth or the witty: "If you're not at the pinnacle by 30, you just suck."

There is at least one idiot **** recruiter out there, though, who views any downward move as a problem. It doesn't matter what the reason was: personal, a hiring editor reneging on a promise, whatever. In his tiny mind, if you ever move down, you just suck.

 

[boots]

I don't see Wright Thompson complaining. And he earned a great job coming out of college.
If you're good, you'll find a job. Or an employer will find you. But if you're at some 5,000 bi-weekly afternoon paper, maybe you're not as good as you think you are.

Bull****. There are plenty of great talents who for some reason or another have fallen through the cracks. I'm so tired of people at big papers, and i'm at one, thumbing their noses at people at smaller papers.
Many of those at larger papers wouldn't last a week at smaller papers. That's because many of them don't know how to work. They know how to hide, which is what you can't do at a smaller shop.

 

[SF_Express]

OK, I'll just come out and admit it.

I don't understand the first post of this thread at all.

Broadway Joe? pe?

 

[broadway joe]

OK, I'll just come out and admit it.

I don't understand the first post of this thread at all.

Broadway Joe? pe?

You'd have to go look at the last few pages of the oppressed white males thread, SF. And I wouldn't blame you at all if you decided not to bother.

 

[SF_Express]

I read enough, and now I understand.

Diversifying as a concept should be a goal of every newspaper and media department. As somebody else said, the numbers speak for themselves.

Specific circumstances often make it harder than it should be in theory. One good example from many in my career: More than 10 years ago, I had an excellent Latino editor lined up for a job at a major metro. Then they said the hire had to come from within -- to an Anglo male.

PAPERS (or whatever) have to be committed to the concept as a whole -- through recruiting, job fairs and, of course, allowing openings to be filled by qualified minorities from outside -- or specific departments have little chance.

 

[Tom Petty]

so, just what is broadway joe entitled to? seems as though, since the numbers are so low, we owe broadway joe, pe and the rest some of the best jobs available in the profession to make sure they approve of quotas.


seems as though many people on this board aren't concerned with equality, it's more about entitlement and not earning a damned thing. doesn't seem quite fair to journalists of any color and/or sex.

Seems like you're not getting a lot of support for your point, Tom, whatever it was.

and you're entitled to that broadway.

 

[SoCalScribe]

The sense of entitlement that many young writers in this business have disgusts me...

Yes, some of us are luckier than others and start at bigger papers for whatever reason... But if this is really what you want to do, give it five years before you start bitching left and right...

If they hire you to cover preps, cover the hell out of it. Don't sit there and complain that you don't get to write a seventh sidebar from the NFL game.

If you're good in this business, and you're willing to apply for jobs and move around a bit, some paper will find you... If you reach 30 and you still have never been promoted and no paper responds when you apply for every job out there, maybe this isn't the business for you. There's no shame in that. I respect the people who realize that and move on...

Couldn't agree more. And that attitude persists, at least in my experience, even at very large papers. For some, their job is never good enough. And while I love someone who's never complacent, being driven doesn't mean one has to be unhappy with where they're at.

If you're good enough, you'll get promoted or get a better job. If it takes six years instead of six months for you to get the job you think you deserve, either you're not as good as you think you are...or, you're just unlucky. Either way, patience and hard work (and a willingness to move) are the only things that are going to get you anywhere.

I had a friend who was an energetic, upbeat person working in finance. Bitched extensively pretty much every single day for several years about how horrible her job was and never wanted to listen when I or anyone else tried to tell her to be patient. Now, she's doing much better and has a fantastic job and is happy, but I can't help thinking...you didn't have to miserable for several years before you landed this job. What a waste of emotion, killing yourself over a situation that was bound to improve and eventually did.

 

[SF_Express]

The "entitlement" thinking can be particularly vexing at a really big paper where people aren't going anywhere anytime soon. You'll have a bunch of prep and smaller college writers who might for the most part be extremely talented and want to move up -- but the people above them aren't leaving.

The catch for the younger writers is it's a great paper and they're paid extremely well, so they don't want to leave, either -- perhaps take a bigger beat at a smaller paper, maybe even for less money. So bitching is inevitable and self-perpetuating. It can be a very difficult situation to manage.

 

[House]

Well, that's why that document says "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Entitlement, my ass. I just ask that I be able to pay the bills and get a few weeks off every year. I'm not so much worried about moving "up" in the business as finding someplace that doesn't treat me like ****. It's still wishful thinking

 

[shotglass]

Well, that's why that document says "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

Entitlement, my ass. I just ask that I be able to pay the bills and get a few weeks off every year. I'm not so much worried about moving "up" in the business as finding someplace that doesn't treat me like ****. It's still wishful thinking

If you haven't found someplace that doesn't treat you like ****, I'd say keep looking ... hard. After a few years of getting beaten down, some people get the idea that there's no place which treats employees fairly. And that's not true. You just have to find it.