"Don't ask, don't tell"

[WaylonJennings]

Good Frank Rich column today in The Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/07/opinion/07rich.html?em

He seems to agree with some of my early posts on this thread that this is going to be an enormous watershed turning point for gay civil rights. Public sentiment has absolutely turned, and people are being forced to scramble to somehow defend what is nothing more than pure bigotry. Most of them, Rich points out, have been remarkably silent. Other than a few holdouts, the right is giving up on this battle, which worked so well once upon a time for Karl Rove. I love the fact that some of the GOP senators who for years hid behind their "support of the military brass" are being exposed.

Simultaneously, Prop 8 is going to be struck down all the way up the 9th Circuit chain, where the pro-Prop 8 side is just getting slaughtered right now. It's about time to invoke the 10-run rule. And then it's the Supreme Court's turn. Could be one they teach in the history books.

 

[User 1019]

I was about to post the same thing, Waylon. Beat me to it.

 

[Boom_70]

Eric Massa single handedly sinking revision to gays in the military policy.

 

[printdust]

When Nancy Pelosi's kids leave their nooks and go to Afghanistan, she should have the right to demand who is in the military.

I trust our officers to know what is best for our country. Their asses are on the line, not hers. End of story.

 

[WaylonJennings]

When Nancy Pelosi's kids leave their nooks and go to Afghanistan, she should have the right to demand who is in the military.

I trust our officers to know what is best for our country. Their asses are on the line, not hers. End of story.

Ah, yes, the airtight, "Nancy Pelosi's kids are not in Afghanistan" argument. Pulling out the heavy artillery now, I see ...

 

[The Big Ragu]

When Nancy Pelosi's kids leave their nooks and go to Afghanistan, she should have the right to demand who is in the military.

I trust our officers to know what is best for our country. Their asses are on the line, not hers. End of story.

Can we just abandon the whole democracy thing and institute the military dictatorship, because that is some pretty damned compelling stuff and you did end the story for us?

 

[Football_Bat]

Eric Massa single handedly sinking revision to gays in the military policy.

Um, spluh?

 

[Boom_70]

The other side of "Don't Ask Don't Tell: Stories from the Navy--

"Stuart's at the edge of the bed ... and [Massa] starts massaging him," Clarke said. "Massa said, 'You'll have to get one of my special massages.' He called them 'Massa Massages.' "

Borsch confirmed his version of events in an e-mail sent to reporters who asked.

"In 1990, aboard the USS Jouett, I was awakened when a senior officer, Lt. Commander Massa, seemed to be groping me. (I was a lieutenant at the time.)," Borsch wrote.

"I believe he may have been drinking. I shouted at him and he left. I mentioned the incident to several other officers. I did not officially report it."

Clarke and another sailor told The Atlantic there were others, including Tom Maxfield, who allegedly found Massa in his bunk undressing him.

 

[Smallpotatoes]

The other side of "Don't Ask Don't Tell: Stories from the Navy--

"Stuart's at the edge of the bed ... and [Massa] starts massaging him," Clarke said. "Massa said, 'You'll have to get one of my special massages.' He called them 'Massa Massages.' "

Borsch confirmed his version of events in an e-mail sent to reporters who asked.

"In 1990, aboard the USS Jouett, I was awakened when a senior officer, Lt. Commander Massa, seemed to be groping me. (I was a lieutenant at the time.)," Borsch wrote.

"I believe he may have been drinking. I shouted at him and he left. I mentioned the incident to several other officers. I did not officially report it."

Clarke and another sailor told The Atlantic there were others, including Tom Maxfield, who allegedly found Massa in his bunk undressing him.

And this is a compelling argument against repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell because...

 

[printdust]

When Nancy Pelosi's kids leave their nooks and go to Afghanistan, she should have the right to demand who is in the military.

I trust our officers to know what is best for our country. Their asses are on the line, not hers. End of story.

Can we just abandon the whole democracy thing and institute the military dictatorship, because that is some pretty damned compelling stuff and you did end the story for us?

Oh. Then let's just grab a bunch of reality TV wannabes to run the Department of Defense.

Need surgery? Go get your nearest gravel truck driver. Nothing like experience in the field.

 

[WaylonJennings]

When Nancy Pelosi's kids leave their nooks and go to Afghanistan, she should have the right to demand who is in the military.

I trust our officers to know what is best for our country. Their asses are on the line, not hers. End of story.

Can we just abandon the whole democracy thing and institute the military dictatorship, because that is some pretty damned compelling stuff and you did end the story for us?

Oh. Then let's just grab a bunch of reality TV wannabes to run the Department of Defense.

Need surgery? Go get your nearest gravel truck driver. Nothing like experience in the field.

The opinion of military officers deserves some weight, of course, but it shouldn't be dispositive. If they have such a strong case, they should be able to articulate it without a problem. The general who tried in the New York Times last week whiffed terribly.

 

[Flying Headbutt]

Well we've already heard what Mike Mullen and Robert Gates think on the issue. Or do we only want to hear from certain soldiers who, perhaps, may reinforce our cro-magnon views?

 

[Boom_70]

The other side of "Don't Ask Don't Tell: Stories from the Navy--

"Stuart's at the edge of the bed ... and [Massa] starts massaging him," Clarke said. "Massa said, 'You'll have to get one of my special massages.' He called them 'Massa Massages.' "

Borsch confirmed his version of events in an e-mail sent to reporters who asked.

"In 1990, aboard the USS Jouett, I was awakened when a senior officer, Lt. Commander Massa, seemed to be groping me. (I was a lieutenant at the time.)," Borsch wrote.

"I believe he may have been drinking. I shouted at him and he left. I mentioned the incident to several other officers. I did not officially report it."

Clarke and another sailor told The Atlantic there were others, including Tom Maxfield, who allegedly found Massa in his bunk undressing him.

And this is a compelling argument against repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell because...

Not a compelling argument but a clear example that will certainly be cited by those against change.

Note those examples cited took place during a time of battle.

 

[WaylonJennings]

The other side of "Don't Ask Don't Tell: Stories from the Navy--

"Stuart's at the edge of the bed ... and [Massa] starts massaging him," Clarke said. "Massa said, 'You'll have to get one of my special massages.' He called them 'Massa Massages.' "

Borsch confirmed his version of events in an e-mail sent to reporters who asked.

"In 1990, aboard the USS Jouett, I was awakened when a senior officer, Lt. Commander Massa, seemed to be groping me. (I was a lieutenant at the time.)," Borsch wrote.

"I believe he may have been drinking. I shouted at him and he left. I mentioned the incident to several other officers. I did not officially report it."

Clarke and another sailor told The Atlantic there were others, including Tom Maxfield, who allegedly found Massa in his bunk undressing him.

And this is a compelling argument against repealing Don't Ask, Don't Tell because...

Not a compelling argument but a clear example that will certainly be cited by those against change.

Note those examples cited took place during a time of battle.

It's one anecdote, though. You'd have to show that it was symptomatic of a widespread issue, and I don't think there is evidence that it would be.